Episode 40: Clarity Before Confidence and the Art of Speaking with Sarah Collins

Hello and welcome to the Mum Means Business podcast, where we shine a light on inspiring women who have one thing in common. When they’re not managing tantrums, homework, P.E. kits and play dates, they are busting their gut to create something from nothing, to turn their passion into a thriving business and build a better life for themselves and their families. We dig into what motivates devoted mothers to pursue entrepreneurship and how they integrate their work and family life.

I’m Victoria Phipps, your host, and if you’re an ambitious mum in need of some solidarity whilst navigating the messy middle of making your big dream a reality, then stick around. This is for you.

NOTE: This is the transcript from the original recording, rather than the edited episode so timings may vary.

Victoria (00:03)
My guest today is a media trainer and communication coach with two decades experience in television production, working at ITV Daytime and ITN. She brings a blend of media insight and coaching together to help ambitious female business owners speak with impact in media interviews so they can grow their audience visibility and authority. Sarah Collins is fascinated by how we communicate.

and chose a career that enabled her to shape stories and craft interviews that connected with their audience. But when she retrained as a coach, she began to notice the missing piece on the other side of the fence. Thought leaders and business owners with brilliant ideas and fascinating stories to tell were shrinking in the spotlight. And many naturally lacked the training and skills to translate their expertise into confident, clear, media-worthy moments. So…

this mum of two decided to help. Sarah now dedicates her time and energy to helping her clients overcome the mindset blocks, the perfectionist tendencies and visibility fears that are holding them back. And as a result, she empowers them to deliver their message confidently, whether that’s to their iPhone, an audience full of people or a TV crew. Sarah, I can’t wait to pick your brains as I know myself and a lot of listeners.

We’ll have so many hangups around this subject. So let’s dig in. Welcome to the Mummy’s Business Podcast.

Sarah Collins (01:31)
Welcome. ⁓ thank you so much. That was a lovely introduction. Thank you for having me.

Victoria (01:36)
you’re welcome. I’m excited about this because I feel like so many of us are carrying a million hangups about speaking, about sharing our story. So I’m really interested to hear your experience having come from this big long career in TV, but let’s start there. You had this big long career in TV and as a mum, you decided to break away and to start a business yourself. What made you do it?

Sarah Collins (02:08)
Oh, such a big question. So I think there were, I think there were lots of little things that kind of lent itself to get to that point. I had, as you said, a really long career. In fact, I still, I still do freelance in TV, so I’ve not totally left that well behind. And it was just lots of little things, as I said. So, you know, they’re obviously having children. I’ve got two children, two girls.

They’re 12 and 13 now, but they were growing up. TV work back then, about 15 years ago, didn’t lend itself to being a working mum. I was very much leaving the house at seven, coming back at seven, never really seeing them and did that for a number of years actually. And I couldn’t really see a way out. I think COVID hit and I ended up working with a career coach.

because I just saw that that career perhaps didn’t have the longevity that I thought it was, that I thought it would have. And so I sought out kind of, what could potentially be next for me. And coaching came out quite on top and I decided to do a coaching qualification. I was still working in TV at that point and, know,

Victoria (03:25)
You

Sarah Collins (03:32)
that work-life balance got a little bit better, didn’t it, after COVID? So that was certainly something that had improved, certainly. But there was just this underlying feeling of the workplace not really sitting in alignment with my values. And I knew that I had the skills to ⁓ combat something that there was quite a gap in the market for.

which was that element of media training and communication coaching and helping people feel confident on camera.

Victoria (04:11)
So what did that look like practically? How did you take those steps? What did it feel like to kind of move away from the security of this job that you’d had before? What, yeah, how did you navigate it?

Sarah Collins (04:27)
Yeah,

I think it helped that I had been freelance. So after my second daughter, I actually freelance for 10 years. I was already, although I hate having that insecurity, I was already kind of navigating that world of, you know, not having the same income every month and kind of, you know, searching for business and looking for work and having to build contacts just to maintain that work.

whilst they were small. I was really, really lucky in the organisation I had that, you know, that kind of allowed me to do holiday cover. And so I did generally have work kind of every time I could potentially work, which was really, really helpful as they were growing up. So I just feel like, sorry, I’ve completely forgotten what your question is. ⁓

Victoria (05:19)
But it’s all right. What did it,

we can cut this out. What did it feel like to navigate that transition from kind of a secure job, you’ve talked about going into freelance, but then the transition into business.

Sarah Collins (05:33)
All right, I’m gonna start again. So I think what helped was that I had already been freelance for a number of years. So I went freelance after my daughter, after I to leave after my daughter, and I navigated a freelance career for around about 10 years, and everything that came with that, the insecurity with the finances every month and having to kind of look for work and keep up your contacts, et cetera, et cetera. So.

I was already on a fixed term contract. There was no set work there. And so when the time came for my contract to come up, I was in a position where I just felt like I needed to do something different. I was ready for a change. The TV world, we know now, this was back in 2024. It was definitely changing. There were changes on the horizon then, and I think I felt that shift. And so…

I thought I’ve got this qualification, I’ve got the skills to fill this knowledge gap. I’m going to go and start a business. And I actually made a real big song and dance of it when I handed in my resignation and said, I’m not going to come back and do another six months. I just said out loud, I’m going to go and start my own business. And I genuinely didn’t even know what that meant. ⁓ I didn’t know what it looked like for me.

Victoria (06:46)
You

Sarah Collins (07:01)
I just had this such a pull and a drive to do it that I kind of mentioned, you know, to everyone that I worked with at the time, I’m going to go and build my business. And then I thought I’m just to figure it out.

Victoria (07:14)
That must have been quite a moment though to like hear yourself saying that out loud to these former colleagues, these people that you’d worked with who are kind of still embedded in this organization. It’s bold, isn’t it? I’m gonna go and build a business. It’s amazing.

Sarah Collins (07:30)
I mean, I’ve

always been really ambitious. I think it just felt right. And that’s why it felt, you know, felt okay to say that because it felt right that the timing was right. And I just thought, I’m going to go and figure this out. And I’ve always, you know, although my, you know, I’ve been very shy and I’ve always had that drive and that ambition. And so this was just another thing that I was going to go and, and, you know,

find out how to do it and kind of go from there.

Victoria (08:03)
No, but I love the confidence in the decision and trusting your instinct that this literally as simple as that, this feels right. This feels like my next step. I’m aligned. I feel confident about it, even though I don’t know what I’m doing and you just go with it. And it is, it is inner confidence. You know, we can talk about feeling shy.

Sarah Collins (08:04)
you

Victoria (08:29)
But actually, and I think a lot of people feel like shyness is linked with confidence, but it really isn’t. It’s the confidence to trust your gut and to bet on yourself. And it’s an inner strength there that even though there are so many unknowns that you have what it takes to figure it out. And then to announce that to a room of people.

Sarah Collins (08:52)
think it all stems, I think almost everything we’re going to talk about in this episode stems with having that belief in yourself. And I didn’t have that belief in myself for a very, very long time. And so now I don’t know in that moment, I just felt like I believe in myself and I believe in my abilities and that is going to carry me through. had I known what I know now,

Victoria (09:18)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (09:21)
you know, it’s that, that we say, don’t we, you know, perhaps I would have done things differently, but actually in that moment, I just felt like I, I, I believe in myself and I’m, and I’m going to work out how to do this. And it’s, you know, I’m, I’m, you know, kind of almost coming up to 18 months in, wow, so much learning and, and, you know, kind of setting things up and, perhaps things not going as well as you like them to, but I, I honestly wouldn’t change it for the world.

Victoria (09:52)
Yeah, I mean, it’s that ignorance is bliss thing, isn’t it? Actually, you have to start with this foundation of self-belief because it feels so exciting and so fun when you don’t know anything yet to just announce this to yourself and to anyone else who’ll listen, like, this is what I’m going to do. And you need to hold onto that when you get four months, eight months, you know, a year down the line and you are going to hit challenges, but it’s that…

determination and that self belief that then you need to come back to, that you’re capable, like, yeah, fine, it’s harder than you thought. There are things you didn’t take into account. You know, maybe if you had had all the information in the first instance, maybe you would have thought twice, but you didn’t and you’ve done it and you’re here and you’re in it and you can weather the storms and get to where you want to be. And you kind of have to have that, I think, even if it is ignorant in the first instance.

Sarah Collins (10:37)
you

Victoria (10:51)
And also just to enjoy that moment of just thinking about what could be, because that’s quite a special moment in itself when you’re not bogged down in the weeds of managing clients or trying to find leads or marketing or whatever it might be. So actually just sit and be like, I’ve decided something that’s quite cool and I reckon I can do it. I think that’s great. I love it.

Sarah Collins (11:17)
I wanted to give it a bit of context because, you know, it’s not, it’s, I mean, this is the kind of work I do my clients as well, because it’s not like there’s some kind of magic thing that happens and suddenly you have belief in yourself and you have belief in yourself from here on in. That’s not, that’s not how it works. This is a, this is like a daily, daily practice, you know, and it’s that continuation, isn’t it? And, and I mean, I, I came from, you know, being really painfully shy as a child.

Victoria (11:32)
Yeah, no, of course, that’s what I mean. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Collins (11:47)
⁓ Not realizing that I had a voice, I was really quiet as a teenager, kind of got thrust into this career in the media, which I’m so grateful for. I had so many amazing opportunities, but I think I felt quite, I think I felt quite kind of swallowed with that big old, you know, those big old organizations that I worked with.

in not kind of feeling like your voice was worthy. And it’s only since I’ve kind of started a business that I really feel like, you know, I am speaking out. I’m speaking out and I’m helping other people and I’m saying all those things, you know, I’ve taken on all those years of being quiet and, you know, not having an opinion and all those things that come with, you know, being shy. And now is, you know, my…

I don’t know, now is my time, I guess. Now I feel like I’ve kind of gone through all those years to get to this point.

Victoria (12:43)
Yeah.

Yeah, it all kind of makes sense. And actually it’s so interesting that this is a transformation that you have had to go through because actually it’s probably, I mean, everyone’s experience, everyone’s individual journey is gonna be different, but it’s probably quite similar to what you’re taking your clients through in the work that you’re doing with them about their confidence and their self-belief. And to…

I think have a coach who can describe themselves as having been painfully shy at one point is so relatable and so human. And to see the things that you’ve gone on to do for your clients, that must be comforting, I think, to think, well, okay, you know, she felt that she was shy growing up. She perhaps didn’t feel like she had a voice in those earlier years of her career.

And so many of us, especially in our kind of twenties, we’re kind of, there’s a bit of perfectionism in there as well, having just kind of come out of school or university or whatever it might be. We don’t want to get things wrong. And we do just stay quiet and just listen and watch what everyone else is doing. And we’re trying to kind of navigate and we’re trying to fit in as well. And so we don’t shout about our own opinions.

And if we’ve got an idea, we don’t necessarily tell anybody, it could be the best idea. And unless there’s kind of absolutely nothing else on the table, we’ll just kind of sit on it. And I think that’s a journey that lot of women will relate to.

Sarah Collins (14:27)
I do tend to attract people that, you know, going on that similar journey, you know, perhaps they’ve been shy or felt dismissed as a child or, you know, just felt like their voice, you know, hasn’t been able to be heard. And I feel like it is, it’s that generation. There’s a whole generation kind of in, I think women in their 30s and 40s that they weren’t taught these skills in school. You know, we weren’t…

I’ve got two daughters, they’re both at secondary school. They’re doing presentations. They’re forever being asked to put their hand up. They’re being asked their opinion. And I feel like there’s a whole generation that have missed out on that. That they don’t feel like their voice is worthy. They weren’t asked their opinion as a child or felt like their voice mattered.

That’s kind of where I feel really passionate about kind of helping people just to kind of bridge that gap.

Victoria (15:32)
Yeah, definitely. And I think you can take it a step further almost to the point where culturally growing up in the 80s, 90s, if you did always put your opinion forward and if you did as a woman, as a girl, you might be described as bossy or showing off and you would learn quite quickly.

that those traits and displaying those behaviors wasn’t appreciated. And so you might just kind of not do that so much. And that becomes part of your kind of shrinking, I guess, which then when women, you know, get into their 30s or 40s and suddenly start a business for whatever reason and are asked to…

go and do an Instagram reel and tell people what they do. It’s like, well, hang on, because I’ve forgotten how to present myself in that way with confidence and all those messages that we’ve internalized about showing off and about not being too big for our boots or, you know, there’s so many ad ages, aren’t there? We’re going against that again and it kind of feels a bit tormenting.

Sarah Collins (16:35)
Mm.

Hmm, well that that was never my experience. That was never my experience. So I’m kind of coming at it from a different angle. I mean, yeah. But me, me, mainly because I was I was the one that was like, don’t speak to me, you know, kind of the teach.

Victoria (17:06)
Well, that’s good. That’s good. That’s good. Trust me.

Well, that’s it. Yeah. Yeah. So they never

needed to tell you that because you weren’t showing off. Okay. It’s funny, isn’t it?

Sarah Collins (17:20)
No, no, no. But the thing I did have,

which yeah, the thing I did have, which I think, you know, kind of lends itself to be being a business owner now is there was an element of wanting to challenge myself. So I’ve, I’ve seen kind of all these different steps. My dad loves this story about when I was at school, that I was so shy, two of the teachers had a bet on

whether I would go and do this catwalk. They were looking for kind of volunteers and I just petrified, but I thought I need to do it. You know, I’m kind of, I kind of just put myself in these situations because I wanted to prove them wrong. And that mentality has definitely stuck with me now in business. And I think there was an element of that. I mean, social media for me before I had my business was pretty non-existent. You know, I didn’t like,

Victoria (17:59)
Yeah, you want to prove them wrong.

Sarah Collins (18:18)
not showing off, I didn’t like kind of sharing things. And then it got to a point where I just thought, I am building a business here. need to, people need to see me, I need to show up. I mean, I was behind the camera for 20 years. And honestly, if you’d put a camera in front of me, I would have ran the other way.

Victoria (18:35)
Yeah.

Yeah, it’s interesting. And obviously you must have been, you can probably reflect back and think of all the times that you were kind of briefing or coaching somebody else that’s about to be on camera. And so you know all the things to say, even then, before you’d done your coaching training, anything, you were probably just inherently as part of your job role, you were doing that. And there would have been people who were nervous and you were like, you know, calm down, it’s all good. What we’re gonna do and explain.

Sarah Collins (18:50)
Mm. Mm.

Thank

Victoria (19:07)
you know, how it’s going to all work, the whole process and make them feel as at ease as possible. And you’ve got it all in your head. You know what to do, but actually it’s totally different when it’s you.

Sarah Collins (19:19)
I was brilliant at that. I’m great at putting people at ease. What I loved best actually about my job in TV was actually it wasn’t about the experts. It wasn’t about the kind of thought leaders. It was going to someone’s home. You’re entering someone’s house and they’re telling their story and they’re giving that interview and it’s making them feel at ease because for them it’s very out of the ordinary to have a film crew and a producer in your house.

Victoria (19:21)
Well, yeah, okay, yeah, I can see it.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Sarah Collins (19:48)
having to kind of tell your story. actually I loved, you know, kind of training them and coaching them through that experience. And so that they could tell their story, you know, and that’s very, that’s very much what I do now because I just love that part, that part of it. And, and so for me, like being on the other side and having to tell my story, it was a completely different ball game. But I, but I just tapped into that mentality of why need to…

Victoria (20:02)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (20:16)
I’ve just got to challenge myself. I’ve got to see this as a bit of a challenge and I’ve got to do it and see what happens and kind of doing that. And I’m now what? Kind of almost 18 months in. It feels quite natural now, but I speak to so many women who to take that first step, it just feels so far out of their comfort zone. It really does. so that’s…

That’s what I’m passionate about. passionate about kind of helping them. A lot of that is just that clarity and what you have to say. You know, when, when we talk about kind of those fears, it’s, it’s just that fear of rejection, fear of, you know, freezing and messing up and people thinking I look ridiculous. But also actually is I don’t know what to say. You know, So many women I speak to, they just, you know, they, they’re not

clear on kind of what their story is or how they go about sharing that or what their message is. They can have these amazing kind of ideas for their business, but just that way of shaping it into a message that people are going to want to listen to, I think is where a lot of women get stuck.

Victoria (21:34)
Yeah, and obviously there’s a lot you can do with them to help them refine that. There’s definitely something about, I mean, I’m a photographer. So although it’s not speaking to camera, I understand the fear around cameras that is kind of just something in our conditioning, that it’s performative. And you know, there’ve been so many times in my career when I would tell people, I mean,

actually, I stopped doing it quite early on because I realized it was counterproductive. But you’d say just be yourselves. And it’s like, literally, then they don’t even know their own name. Like everything in your head just falls out of your head. And you’re literally like, who am I? Animal, mineral, vegetable. And it’s the same when you’re, I guess, training people to deliver their story or deliver a particular message about a service they offer or a product they’re offering and

Sarah Collins (22:14)
Hahaha

Victoria (22:32)
You stick a camera in front of somebody’s face, even if it’s their own phone and they’re alone in a room and it’s just like, uh, uh, uh, and they just feel awkward.

Sarah Collins (22:43)
Well, there’s several things there because I think a lot of it is in the preparation and actually just taking that time to think, not even think about what I’m going to say, but it’s more about how do I want people to feel. It’s very much about what do I want people to potentially do after they’ve seen this? And it’s about kind of taking that focus, it’s not…

It’s not kind of on you. It’s not all you know, I my voice sounds terrible I hate the way I look, you know all these different things that we say to ourselves It’s about just getting over that and then focusing on actually what’s the benefit of me doing this? You know, there has to be a purpose behind you appearing on camera You know, so be clear on that purpose, but take it away from you and actually place it on you know What what are the people my audience getting out of it is is?

is what does work.

Victoria (23:40)
Yeah, I can totally see that. And it’s the same with overcoming any blocks in your marketing, if you can, because it’s all about just being self-conscious, isn’t it? And then actually, if you can reframe it and think, well, it’s not about me. I went through a huge journey actually on this podcast, because obviously when I’m having these conversations, I can see you and I can also see me. And I’d been like, I’m okay, you know, I’ve,

I’ve done some terrible reels in the last three years, my God, as I sort of floundered around not knowing what path to take next in my business and gone through that journey of it feeling really staged and really awkward and people messaging me and being like, this is a little bit cringe, just FYI, it doesn’t sound like you. Very kind friends are meant with love, but you go through all of that because I think you’re brought up, especially with stuff, you know, on TV.

I often say this, I don’t know why, I just think, I always remember growing up, TV, was like, it was the Queen’s English. It was all clipped and everybody was very proper and polite. you know, it just seemed like there was a professional way of presenting and that was for them and it wasn’t for us. And so to kind of navigate doing it yourself, I feel like there is a sort of transition.

that you have to go to, to actually get to a point where you feel comfortable and it actually sounds like you. And you’re kind of coming across as human, not as kind of a robot, which is a whole thing in itself, which I’m sure we can talk about. But in this podcast, kind of at first, when I recorded the first few episodes, you can’t help yourself. You’re like looking over, like, what am I doing? What am I, what do I look like right now? There was one. ⁓

episode I recorded recently with a lady who is an incredible poet and she ⁓ wrote a poem for the episode which was really beautiful and I started crying quite quickly and the poem was so gorgeous but for a moment all I could think of was my god you’re such an ugly crier and then I was like no one cares this is so beautiful and this is landing with this is gonna land with all of these women because it’s so relatable and

doesn’t matter if you’re an ugly crier. And you have to kind of get to that point where you just take yourself out of the equation. And you just think, is this going to help somebody? Is this going to mean something to someone? Is this going to solve a problem for somebody? Is it going to uplift them as they go about their day? And I think that’s so freeing.

Sarah Collins (26:16)
think we worry far too much about what other people think about us. And I think I’ve had a huge journey to kind of overcome that. mean, when the kids were small, I remember taking them on the school run. And I was ⁓ such a kind of over thinker back then. I would go have a conversation, don’t you, on the school playground. And I’d come home and I’d overthink the whole conversation.

Victoria (26:43)
God, why did I say that?

Sarah Collins (26:44)
And

it would be, it would, it would be so consuming. You know, there’s like my, my couple of hours gone, you know, think over thinking about this. And I think that stems from not being completely confident in yourself because you know, you’re, you’re worrying about what you’re saying and how you’re coming across. Whereas when you get that confidence, you know, you, you know, you have the conversation, you have the conversation, you leave it there, you don’t think about it again. But that has been a huge journey for me.

I mean, this week alone, I’ve had conversations with people around, you know, is my story, is my story worthy? And of course your story is worthy. Of course your message is worthy. You know, everyone has a unique story that, you know, it’s just about how you, how you tell it to spark that curiosity. And I think we have this innate thing, don’t we, where it’s

Victoria (27:26)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (27:43)
like no one’s going to want to listen to me. I hear that so many times. Why do people want to hear what I’ve got to say? And, and trust me, I have been there. I’ve been there and I’ve done the hard work to get through the other side. Why do people, and I, and I, you know, the number one thing in this world is to make other people feel kind of important. And the best way that you can do that is listen to what they have to say. You know, people want to hear what other people have to say.

Victoria (27:53)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (28:12)
And I think the sooner we believe and understand that, the better everyone will be.

Victoria (28:21)
Yeah, and there’s definitely an element of kind of the more as women and as mothers, you know, because motherhood can be all consuming and we can shrink, especially in the early years of motherhood, because we just have so much on our plate and we can lose our sense of self a little bit. I think that’s common. And then we kind of have to come out of the trenches and realign and recalibrate and think about.

what we want for our future and how we want to kind of take the next steps. But there’s definitely, I’ve completely lost my train of thought. What did you say? We’ve both done it now.

Sarah Collins (29:05)
I was talking about that, you know, thinking about what other people think of us, yeah, and being going on that journey. Yeah, relating it to motherhood.

Victoria (29:11)
worrying about what other people think.

Still can’t remember my point.

God, is like, I feel this is like baby brain meets perimenopause. Like, and I’ve only had like a week off in between the two.

Sarah Collins (29:30)
Thank

Yeah.

Victoria (29:39)
god, it’s funny isn’t it? Motherhood. ⁓ god.

don’t think I’m going to get that back anytime soon.

Okay, no, I do. I’ve got it. ⁓ got it. Right. I’m going to pause a little bit and I’m going to clap because that’s what makes the audio editor like fine this bit.

And we kind of have to come out of the trenches, recalibrate, rediscover ourselves to a certain extent as women having just been so immersed in that early period of motherhood. And there’s something about seeing other mums going out there and doing this stuff and telling their stories. just, know, woman to woman, there’s a kind of lifting as we climb thing because

we will all have our own experience of that kind of early conditioning of staying small and of shrinking and of feeling like nobody wants to hear this. And especially, know, social media is hard because, you know, the marketers will say, you have to tell it again and again and again and again and again, because attention spans are short, because everyone needs so many touch points with you before they’re going to invest and…

all of this advice. And you can just feel like everyone must be so bored of me, so bored of me. But actually they’re not. And the reality is they’re not seeing it as many times as you’re putting it out there. And nobody is as interested in your business as you are. But often I find that actually when I see other mums just doing the hard thing and putting their faces out there, whether that be on Instagram,

whether that be on some press coverage or if they did something on TV, I’m like, yes, because if she can do it, then I can do it. And we can all do it together and we can all lift each other up. And there’s something really beautiful about that, like showing that it can be done and leading the way.

Sarah Collins (31:50)
I had a conversation this week on exactly that. And it was around, you know, how we’re perceived by other people. When we do step out of that comfort zone and we go and do something that is a bit scary, like starting a business. And, you know, this particular person was saying, I’m so worried about what other people are gonna think of me.

And then, ⁓ but really when you think about it, you have to put the shoe on the other foot. If I saw someone, you know, an ex colleague starting their own business, really striving to make that a success, putting themselves out of their comfort zone, really going for it, I would think good for you. I’d even probably feel a bit like, I wish, you know, I want to do that, you know. So you become like a bit, you know, a bit of an inspiration. And I was having this conversation and she said to me, you know, I’m,

Victoria (32:31)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (32:43)
about to leave TV and lots of changes in TV at the moment about to leave TV I’m thinking about starting my own business I’ve you’ve been really inspiring and I just felt

Victoria (32:52)
⁓

that’s gorgeous.

Sarah Collins (32:53)
That’s so

wonderful because like we said back in the day in TV, if we could put out a story and one person benefited from it, then it would be worthwhile. And I feel the same now. And I feel about that when I put pieces of content out. If just one person sees this reel, sees this podcast, listens to the podcast or does something or is inspired in some way from what you’re saying and from what you’re putting out there, then it’s

it’s all worthwhile and I think that’s we have to think about that more don’t we rather than those consumed thoughts of ⁓ god you know what’s what’s this person thinking about me it’s so easy to kind of get into that spiral

Victoria (33:33)
Yeah.

Yeah, and actually what a gift to give you to tell you that you had been an inspiration in that sense. And I think there’s something we can all take from that to just take a moment because it obviously really boosted you. She was happy to have got that out there and told you that actually you’d really helped her.

feel like this was possible for her too. And if we do see something that makes us feel that way, like good for you, to just like stop and pause, even if it’s someone you’ve never met and just go and just like drop into their DMs and be like, I’ve just seen this and I found it really inspiring and good for you, you’re doing a cracking job. And actually I don’t think you can get too big to appreciate that.

I think that everybody at every level of their business is going to have challenging times and is going to have dark days. And especially as women, sometimes I feel like I have 10 moods in an hour. I can start an hour and feel like, my God, I’m actually killing it. And then half an hour later, I’m like, I don’t know why I’m bothering. And it’s so hard to navigate that. And your message might just land at a moment where somebody has put a reel out into the world.

and they took that brave action. And now, you know, maybe it’s not gone much traction and that, you know, cause we all do, we’re like looking, does anybody, is anybody engaging with this? And they’re just perhaps feeling a bit flat and then your message lands and they think, okay, yeah, one person. It’s like you said, that one person it landed with. And you don’t have to comment publicly. It can just be like a little private thing. And then they think, right, I can do it again because one person.

noticed and they got it. And that’s what we need to do for each other, I think, because that’s all tied into confidence. And rather than kind of look at it and be like, God, she’s doing it, you know, just reframe it in your own mind and take a moment to just give that gift of that compliment. I think that’s really powerful.

Sarah Collins (35:57)
I think there’s so many people that inspiring in this small business world. There really is. I mean, you’re one of them with this podcast. I think it’s so inspiring. It’s so inspiring what you’re

Victoria (36:02)
God, watch me really accept this compliment now. ⁓ that’s really kind.

Sarah Collins (36:13)
But

it’s also, it’s not just, we’ve got to remember it’s not just the people that actually tell us either. It’s actually having that quiet confidence that what you’re doing is inspiring people when they’re not even saying, where they’re not saying it. It’s inspiring so many people that we don’t know about and that’s kind of a reason to keep going, isn’t it? And I feel…

Victoria (36:35)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (36:38)
there’s definitely a kind of bridge there between…

I think this is why I’m so passionate about kind of what I do in the terms of the coaching alongside the media training, because it’s all about just building that confidence, building that confidence and knowing that, as I said, kind of, know, what you have to say matters and making sure that, you know, you’re in that right space to be able to deliver things for other people, because you need to bring your best energy, don’t you? To things like this, to, you know, to the reels, to speaking on camera, maybe it might be an event or doing a talk.

Victoria (37:07)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (37:14)
You have to bring your best energy for that, for other people to benefit. So it’s all interlinked, isn’t it?

Victoria (37:23)
Yeah, definitely,

definitely. Okay, well, let’s talk about then practically the process that you take people through the transformation that your service and your coaching offers. So say somebody comes in and they are struggling perhaps to gain clarity on their message or on their story.

and they feel that it’s in there somewhere and they’re hearing left, and center that they have to put out reels and then they should speak on stages and then they should go on TV and then they should have a magazine article and all these things. But they just don’t know where to start. What do you do to help them? Talk me through it.

Sarah Collins (38:05)
So I…

them a bit of a blend between coaching, of mentoring and media training, but the media training comes very much at the end because it’s all about kind of gaining that clarity first. So what we will do is we we’d work on, you know, things like their introduction, you know, so many people come to me and say, just, don’t even, somebody says to me, what do I do? And I don’t know what to say. So it’s, so it’s, so it’s kind of getting over that first barrier, you know, actually how, how, what are you calling yourself? How do

Victoria (38:29)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (38:38)
answer that question because… yeah!

Victoria (38:40)
I think that’s a really hard question, especially

because a lot of people have a lot of different things going on these days. It’s not as simple as, you know, back in the day job for life, you know, I’m a clerk or I’m a solicitor or I’m a bricklayer or I’m a doctor. It’s so multifaceted and so often people in business, especially are multi-passionate and they might have a few different, you know, projects and things going on. So that can be really, really difficult. I definitely sympathize with that.

Sarah Collins (38:45)
Mm. ⁓

Victoria (39:07)
And what do you say to that question? I struggle with it too.

Sarah Collins (39:11)
I think it’s good to have like an over, an over lining.

kind of introduction, you know, so that you, you know what you can say, but then obviously adapting that for the situation, because it might be that you’re in different circumstances and actually the audience there will benefit from, you know, putting this thing first, whereas that audience would benefit from putting that thing first. But having a structure kind of in place, ready to answer that question is the first hurdle for a lot of people. And then we go to kind of storytelling and also clarity

your

messages as well. And you know, a lot of what I do also is confidence coaching, but that kind of comes in between because the cloud when you have the clarity, the confidence comes. So one of, you know, my, my, call it kind of my superpower, but what I think I’m best at is actually someone telling me their story. And then I’m able to kind of cling on to that one thing that really sparks a curiosity for me, because I know from my background, that

is likely to spark curiosity for a lot of people. So it’s about actually, you know, getting that clarity on those different messages on your story. And then like we said, rinsing and repeating it, you know, you don’t get known for something if you don’t keep repeating those kind of core messages and your story. And you know, you’ve got to remember that, you know, if you’re constantly inviting new people into your world, you could be saying your story, what feels like a thousand

times, but someone might only have just entered your world and is hearing it for the first time and resonates with it. So it’s all about having that clarity and being clear on your messaging and just telling it and telling it with confidence. So then once we’ve got the clarity, we go into the media training and then we look at kind of actually what that visibility strategy looks like kind of going forwards for them.

you know, in terms of speaking opportunities, what does that kind of look like for them? And then kind of work on it from there.

Victoria (41:22)
It sounds like quite a journey. And I imagine you have to kind of sometimes approach it kind of softly, softly, catchy monkey. Like, right, let’s first, let’s just answer that question of what do you do? You know, you really can’t, I understand why the media training comes later because you can’t be like, right, let’s get your TV ready. And everyone would just be like, my gosh, so overwhelmed. And it must be quite, quite rewarding doing it that way.

Sarah Collins (41:36)
Yeah.

Victoria (41:51)
and then watching people grow in confidence. What do you see in terms of that transformation?

Sarah Collins (41:59)
I think, like you said earlier, I think because I’ve been through that journey, it really is just such a beautiful transformation to see, I think because of my own experience. But I mean, it’s interesting because I had someone come to me this year and on the outside, very confident, wanted that kind of media training element and just to draw out the story.

And then we were working on the clarity and the messaging and I thought, something’s, something’s holding her back here. then, you know, having to do that kind of whole confidence coaching and the, the drawing out of those beliefs that were kind of holding her back. It was really interesting to see, but a really great reminder for me that actually what you see on the outside is not always what’s going on inside. And, ⁓ but I’ve had, yeah, I’ve had some really beautiful transformations, you know, and people have gone on to, you know, be able to do podcasts. Whereas when they come

to work with me, that is so far out of their comfort zone that they can’t quite believe they get to that point. But it’s really, really lovely to see.

Victoria (43:09)
Yeah, and I imagine they’re so proud of themselves once they’ve done the thing, because we can build these things up to be absolutely enormous in our heads. And I totally get that. And people will say to me now, talking about people come across as confident, but you’re doing all this stuff and you’ve got a podcast. You must be, you’re obviously very confident. And yes, but it…

is I’m confident in podcasting now because I’ve done it, you know, so many times, but confidence comes with practice. And it’s only what nine months ago that I was sitting in this room having pitched to go on my very first podcast, which was a photography podcast. And I honestly, it was about 1130, this was set for, I cleared.

my diary for that morning. I didn’t try and do anything. All I did was set it up as soon as the kids had gone to school in nursery that day. I had bought a microphone, this very microphone, because I was like all the gear and no idea. I dug out these old headphones and I just got my partner upstairs testing if this would work for about two and a half hours. And I was…

Sarah Collins (44:26)
you

Victoria (44:27)
I felt like I was having heart palpitations. Like I was so nervous. And actually the fact that I cleared my diary probably made it worse because it was literally like all I was thinking about. I was sort of writing notes about what I might say. And I was reading her emails with the instructions over and over and over in case I missed something. And actually just doing that, I came off the recording.

and just sort of sighed like, my God, I did it. And I was buzzing with energy because I’d actually really enjoyed it. But then all this kind of nervous activity had to kind of, I think I had to go out for a long walk and just kind of get it all out of me. And then it came out and I was like, I actually, I sound like I do know some stuff. And that then gives you another confidence boost and you feel like, okay, I could probably do that again.

And it’s just taking those baby steps, like you say. I mean, I went to the extreme and just like, I love podcasting now. I’m going to start one. I don’t think everyone should do that because actually loads of hard work. But it definitely isn’t the case that you just are born with all this confidence and you might be confident in one area of your life. You could be so confident in the service that you provide in your business, but actually very shy.

Sarah Collins (45:32)
you

Victoria (45:51)
around telling anyone about it. And it’s that understanding that one probably isn’t going to work without the other. And then taking that responsibility and like you said earlier, reframing it that it’s actually not about you. And I think that’s a journey that every business person, especially if you’re like solopreneuring, you have to go through and how nice.

and comforting and helpful to have somebody hold your hand through that a little bit because I think it’s really hard.

Sarah Collins (46:24)
We’ve got to remember that, you know, something like this, you know, I mean, the TV, the TV studio is the extreme case, isn’t it? But even something like this, it is a stress. It can be a stressful situation. You know, you’re putting yourself into an environment that perhaps is completely brand new to you. You’re, know, having all these thoughts about, you know, how you’re going to come across and all of that. And it’s about…

Victoria (46:33)
Mm.

Sarah Collins (46:49)
I wish I could have got my hands on you when you were prepping for it because it’s really, you know, it’s about just in that moment, actually having some exercises as well where you could just breathe and, you know.

Victoria (47:05)
Yeah, I didn’t breathe, I don’t think, for two and a half

hours. I don’t think I breathe through the conversation either, which is probably also not ideal.

Sarah Collins (47:09)
And actually…

But

enjoy that process, know, and be relaxed going into it because, you know, we do get the hot, hot, hot palpitations and the sweaty palms and all those things, you know, because it is, you know, it’s nerve wracking, but it, you know, again, it’s like kind of twisting those thoughts, like we said before, you know, instead of saying, you know, I’m really nervous, you know, it’s about, I’m really excited. I’m, you know, excited to kind of talk about what I do and have this conversation and just getting into that right frame of mind.

Victoria (47:17)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Sarah Collins (47:45)
before the record button is hit.

Victoria (47:49)
Yeah. Oh yeah, it would have been so helpful to speak to you in that moment. Absolutely, would. So what, mean, but say somebody has committed to something like this and they don’t know how to kind of regulate their nervous system going into it. What advice do you give them to settle a bit? You know, what do you say?

Sarah Collins (47:51)
you

Yeah, I mean, everybody, everybody’s different. I mean, for me, you know, I, when I’ve got something like this, I always try and go and do some exercise because I know that kind of brings my best energy. I’ve had clients in the past who actually just going for a walk and sitting on a bench for 10 minutes and just really kind of getting grounded and calm really helps them. So you’ve got to find out what it is that really helps you in that moment and kind of, you know, just take yourself away from that situation. You know, maybe not sit there for two and a half hours.

Victoria (48:21)
Yeah.

Sarah Collins (48:41)
hours and try to sort the tech.

Victoria (48:42)
Just obsessing about tech. Yeah.

Sarah Collins (48:46)
Just take yourself away. But again, it is that once you’ve got that clarity of your messaging and your story, these things become so much easier because you know what you’re saying. I think that’s one of the number one things holding people back. I don’t know what to say, you know, and we’re all building businesses, aren’t we? We’re all building businesses. We want to be known for that particular thing. And so this is where opportunities like this, like podcasts, like radio interviews, you know, even TV interviews, they’re such fantastic opportunities.

Victoria (48:47)
Ugh.

Yeah.

Sarah Collins (49:16)
to raise your visibility. It’s just about having those right messages and that story in place ready, you know, to say it because I think that takes away half of the fear around it in the first place.

Victoria (49:30)
Yeah, definitely. And do you feel like this journey that you’ve been on, going through the coaching, starting this business and finding that confidence in yourself where you feel like that was a challenge earlier on in your life, how has that impacted your role as a mum?

Sarah Collins (49:56)
So, I mean, the coaching was huge for me. What I loved about my doing my coaching qualification was all those elements of communication. And I think that’s why I’ve ended up doing what I do now, you know, plus my expertise, but it really cemented in me that everyone has a different communication style and that’s okay.

And it made me accept my communication style. You know, I always thought I was a little bit, I don’t know, want to say a bit odd, but I always thought, you know, sometimes I know I’d say something or, you know, why do I do this or why do I act like that? And then I suddenly realized that actually about this communication style that everybody was different. It made me communicate with my family differently. I’ve got a much, I would say I’ve got a much closer relationship actually with my

daughters, think because of it and the coaching skills. also, you know, I do use them with them. I’m very much around, you know, empowering them to come up with situations, you know, the solutions for things, asking them their opinions, all those things that I, you know, I would have loved to have had, you know, when I was a child, just someone valuing that actually my opinion matters, my voice matters. You know, I’m very conscious of that.

two daughters, I don’t want them to go through the same things that I’ve gone through and so I think it’s had a huge impact, not just my daughters but my family, my friends, a huge impact to be honest.

Victoria (51:34)
That’s really lovely to hear. And I think often when we’re building businesses, we have to do so much personal growth and your journey specifically, because it is all about communication. And when you look back, you didn’t know how to access your voice. You found it uncomfortable.

and to have to go drag yourself through that transformation as well so that you understand. And you can see that now in your children when you feel that they’re holding back and you can pick up on it with all of your coaching skills and you can help them through it, especially as they kind of go into their teenage years, which is challenging for anyone to navigate. And definitely a time when we feel like we’re just desperate to fit in and we don’t want to say the wrong thing and we can shrink in ourselves.

to have a mum who gets it and who knows how to help and who knows the right thing to say to build their confidence. And it’s not like what you’re gonna say is gonna solve all their problems as they navigate adolescence. But I imagine that that will be so comforting for them and so good for your relationship with each other as they kind of come up against these like social challenges that are inevitable that they know that you’ve got their back.

and that you get it. I think that’s gorgeous. So nice.

Sarah Collins (53:03)
Thank you and I mean by no means is it perfect. It’s definitely a work in progress but you know it’s…

Victoria (53:07)
No, of course! No, obviously!

Yeah.

Sarah Collins (53:13)
It’s I, but also, but it relates also to having a business, doesn’t it? You know, and having that flexibility, you know, I am around a bit more. I started my business at the exact same time that my youngest was walking her started walking herself to school, you know, and so, and so suddenly that that element of, know, going to the school gates and speaking to friends and was kind of taken away. But I don’t ever feel like I missed that because I was suddenly networking and having calls.

Victoria (53:29)
gosh. Yeah.

Sarah Collins (53:42)
and I kind of replaced that with something else, which was amazing. you know, one of my proudest moments actually has been my daughter choosing kind of GCSE options. And she came home and she was like, I’m going to do business studies. And she did and she didn’t inadvertently say, you know, because of you or, you know, anything like that. But I thought, wow, that’s so interesting, isn’t it about that whole, you know, we can be what we can see. And she’s seeing me trying to build a

Victoria (53:58)
⁓

Sarah Collins (54:12)
business and that there is another way and having that flexibility and that freedom to be around a bit more, to have that close relationship. So, you know, that’s, you know, I’m really grateful that I’ve kind of gone down this route and have that now with them.

Victoria (54:29)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it’s, it’s awkward to tell your mum that you’re proud of her and it feels a bit like it’s the wrong way around. But that’s kind of what is probably happening, you know, because they come on the ride with us and they will see the days when actually we feel a bit flat about it. We’re like, I thought I had this client, but actually they’ve said they don’t have the budget for it or whatever, or I thought this and then this didn’t happen or I was going to pitch for that opportunity, but I didn’t get it. And then they will see the highs and.

whilst you’re not kind of sharing every intricate moment of your journey with them, they feel it. And actually what I love about business and being in business is that it just feels like life, you know, that it’s the highs and the lows, the rough with the smooth. And yeah, it’s not steady, but we’re in charge of it and it’s kind of up to us.

and we can advocate for ourselves. We can find that flexibility to be with our kids when they need us. And I think to take them along for the ride and have them watch that is a great learning experience for them as well. And I think if she’s doing business studies, you’ll probably have some interesting conversations ahead of you where she’ll wanna pick your brains.

Sarah Collins (55:49)
It’s funny, isn’t it? Because this whole kind of online business world is, I feel like it’s such a new thing to us, isn’t it? So, you know, so for anything, we’re kind of learning the ropes and learning the skills because when their generation come through, it’s probably going to be the norm for them to have, you know, some kind of online business or a job alongside an online business or something like that. So actually to be able to do that and to be able to kind of show them, you know, that way is such a lovely thing to be

Victoria (55:57)
Yeah, yeah, completely,

Sarah Collins (56:19)
today.

Victoria (56:21)
Yeah,

and also like our generation is groundbreaking in this. This stuff doesn’t come naturally. We were not brought up to step in front of a camera and talk about ourselves and essentially sell ourselves, sell our story. It’s very, very alien. It feels deeply uncomfortable at times. And actually for them, I often think about it because I have two daughters as well, although they’re younger, it will be very natural. It will be…

just nothing even worth talking about. These conversations will go into the history books, but actually it’s hard for us to do this. And, you know, it’s really only COVID when you started your business that actually everybody had to become comfortable with the online world. There were whole generations who’d never done an online food order until COVID happened. And so we’re right at the beginning of this and we are, I think, pioneering and actually our kids.

when they look back and they listen to these conversations, we’ll hopefully see that. And I think it’s amazing to kind of show them that we’re embracing it and not shying away from it, because it is challenging for a kind of very analog generation to get their head around. And I think, I’m feeling like we’re quite cool right now. It’s hard, you know.

Sarah Collins (57:43)
What

I will say is nothing ever takes away from a face-to-face conversation. mean, this is great, but actually having that face-to-face conversation, and I think it’s all about getting that balance, isn’t it? Whatever you do, having that face-to-face conversation with someone trumps everything.

Victoria (57:51)
Definitely, agree, yeah.

no,

I agree completely. And I am, I am the first person to sign up for all in real life events. I get such a buzz out of being in a room, especially like a room of women talking about this stuff. I think is really, really powerful and energizing. And like I’m down for any version of communication, like all good conversation. It’s completely my thing. And I love this and I’ve loved this conversation, but you’re so right.

Sarah Collins (58:11)
you

Victoria (58:33)
And I think that’s part of it as well is teaching our kids that yes, all this stuff is amazing. And like we didn’t have it, it just did not exist when we were kids. And it’s so accessible, it’s instant, it’s convenient, but nothing beats going to meet your friend for a coffee rather than just, you know, doing this or texting, like actually, like saying we’re like my kids, playing in real life.

and teenagers just every now and again, just get off the Xbox and go into town and meet each other like we all used to do. You know, I completely agree.

Sarah Collins (59:06)
Well,

I mean, you know that coffee is a thing these days, isn’t it? So I know your daughters are younger, but when they get to the age where they can go into town, they do go and sit and have coffee with their friends. ⁓ That is a thing.

Victoria (59:18)
Which is so fun. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, my kids are like very embarrassingly middle-class and they are fully familiar with what coffee and cake is because that is what mommy likes to do. And it’s what her granny and her pop like to do. So they will say, are we going for coffee and cake? And I’m like, gosh. So they’ll be there. They’ll be in Costa age 15 with their double espresso probably by then I imagine, cause they’ve been going since they were like born. They’ll be onto the hard stuff.

Sarah Collins (59:37)
Yeah.

Victoria (59:48)
So yeah, I mean, it all sounds very civilized, doesn’t it? I have one last question for you, Sarah, before I let you go. So your children are a little bit older. I think you’ve been through this stage, but what would you say now if you could have a conversation with eight-year-old Sam?

Sarah Collins (59:48)
Yeah.

Yes it does, absolutely.

I would say that what you have to say matters, but I would also just go back and say, do you think of this? Start making that language quite normal. What do you think of this? What’s your opinion? And just start getting her to kind of voice what she thinks. I think that’s such an important thing, especially at that age. I would have loved to have had that around. I think it would have made…

Victoria (1:00:22)
Mm.

Sarah Collins (1:00:37)
my journey somewhat different, but that’s what I would say.

Victoria (1:00:43)
That’s really simple, but really quite powerful, isn’t it? You’ve made me wonder how many times I ask my children their opinion. I think with the eldest, I’d be a bit worried about how long that answer would be. I don’t think I need to worry about her talking and sharing her opinion, but with my youngest, that’s something that I should definitely embrace, I think. Sarah, it’s been such a lovely conversation and…

Sarah Collins (1:00:55)
you

Victoria (1:01:11)
I think you’ve given a lot of really valuable advice to how we can kind of tap into that clarity. And actually it’s the clarity that leads to the confidence. And I think that’s definitely gonna be my main takeaway from this conversation. Tell me how everybody can find you if they’d like to track you down online in this digital age in which we live, where should they go?

Sarah Collins (1:01:38)
So I’m on Instagram, saracollins underscore coaching consultant or on LinkedIn under my name. I’ve got a website saracollinscoaching.com and ⁓ I’m also gonna leave a ⁓ freebie which is like an audio. It’s a camera confidence audio. So we’ve spoken a lot about that today. So it’s a little five minute audio just to listen before you want to go and press record.

And I’ve had great feedback from that. So I will definitely give you the link.

Victoria (1:02:02)
my gosh, that’s so good.

Yeah.

Okay, amazing. I’m going to put that in the show notes and also download it myself because that sounds like such a helpful freebie. So many freebies are throwaway, but that one, that’s a really good idea. Love that. ⁓ thank you, Sarah. Thank you for your time. I really appreciate it. I’ve loved chatting with you.

Sarah Collins (1:02:19)
Amazing.

Thank you so much.