Episode 46: Finding Your Place; Identity, Belonging and Ambition After Children with Fiorenza Rossini

Hello and welcome to the Mum Means Business podcast, where we shine a light on inspiring women who have one thing in common. When they’re not managing tantrums, homework, P.E. kits and play dates, they are busting their gut to create something from nothing, to turn their passion into a thriving business and build a better life for themselves and their families. We dig into what motivates devoted mothers to pursue entrepreneurship and how they integrate their work and family life.

I’m Victoria Phipps, your host, and if you’re an ambitious mum in need of some solidarity whilst navigating the messy middle of making your big dream a reality, then stick around. This is for you.

NOTE: This is the transcript from the original recording, rather than the edited episode so timings may vary.

Victoria (00:01)
My guest today began building her coaching business in 2016, alongside a career in investment banking. But when her first child was born in 2019, she knew something had to change. Like so many new mothers, she realized that she couldn’t keep growing her career in the same way, whilst also being the parent she wanted to be. So with a new clarity, she made the decision to leave corporate life and focus fully on coaching.

Fast forward a decade and Fiorenza Rossini now supports driven professional women who find themselves at a similar pivot point in early motherhood. Her company, Inow, helps parents navigate change and redefine ambition after children, respecting the truth that for this season of life, their capacity looks different. As a new mom, nesting at home with your baby is easy to feel that somehow you’re falling behind.

that the adult world is carrying on without you outside your window or on your social media feeds, that somehow you don’t belong there anymore. Having experienced this identity shift herself and as a mom raising two children in a cross-cultural family, Ferenza is fascinated by this notion of belonging. Her podcast, The Belonging Project, dives deep into identity and what it means to belong in life and work. There is so much to dive into here, Ferenza, so let’s not waste another moment.

Welcome to the Mum Meets Business podcast.

Fiorenza Rossini (01:26)
Hi Victoria, thank you so much for having me today. I can’t wait for our conversation.

Victoria (01:32)
Me too. I feel like we’re going to have lots to talk about. I too am like really interested in this idea of belonging. And I’ve listened to a few of your podcast episodes now and they are fascinating. And it’s a subject that I think not enough people talk about. So we will get to that, but let’s start at the beginning of your story. I’ve already explained what made you, well, I haven’t really, what made you start your business? What did make you start your business? I’ve explained that you did. So it’s 2016. You’re not a mum. Why did you do that when you had this corporate job?

Fiorenza Rossini (02:03)
You know what, I would say, I guess, rewinding a little bit, I didn’t find a vocation when I was studying. I think many people…

don’t and they kind of just go with the flow and perhaps a lucky few do and very early on they know what they want to do. So I was not part of the lucky few so I tagged along, following recommendation, advice from teachers, of course my parents chiming in and I ended up studying math and computer science which is a mile away from…

Victoria (02:40)
Wow.

Fiorenza Rossini (02:44)
what I’m doing now, but also, yeah, mean, yes, it is what it is. And I ended up working in a bank, which is great. You finish university, you work for a bank, there’s kind of a good prospect of a traditional career ahead of you. And then there’s also, then there’s your personality, right? And I think…

I was way too young to know what I wanted to do. I wasn’t mature enough and also I didn’t have… I think I needed to explore a few things before coming to…

you know, an idea of actually what is it that not only I’m good at, but I actually, I love doing, and I can make a difference. A little bit like finding my shining light, you know, it sounds a little bit cheesy. And I’m very grateful for the corporate experience that I had. think, you know, it was needed and it makes me me now, right? And I can relate to my clients more and I can understand the dynamic.

Victoria (03:41)
You

Fiorenza Rossini (03:58)
of their everyday life, their challenges and so on. One thing that I realized was really…

moving the needle for me was the human aspect. the connection, not only on a professional level and how you’re doing with your KPIs and have you reached your goals and all that, but really kind of talking about human growth, human potential, really kind of deep diving into those kind of development topics with people. And it wasn’t clear

to me how I could find a way to focus on that within

my organization. Yes, of course, there’s learning and development, is HR. Of course, you can include those elements in a leadership role, but then there’s also the rest of it, right, that you’re asked to do. And I really wanted to focus on that. So I explored what that could mean in many different ways. I started working with a coach myself, and I went to so many different workshops. And I must say, working

with my first coach really kind of planted a little seed and I was like I’m really you know having such a phenomenal time here on this discovery journey about myself but also wow this is like a fantastic job like you’re creating change for people and you are creating you’re facilitating change for people and you’re also really making an impact

And I stayed with that idea for a little while and…

then I decided to train as a coach, which I did while being in my job with my holiday allowance mostly. And I was like, you know, I don’t know if I’m going to like it, but this is something that, you know, I think is going to be so useful to have anyway on your CV or, you know, as a team leader. So, yeah, and it started like that. And then I was really, you know, in love with

Victoria (06:04)
Yeah.

Fiorenza Rossini (06:23)
with the profession and really passionate about it and also very risk-averse so it took me quite a few years to actually you know decide that yes you know I couldn’t do everything I had to focus on what I really wanted to do and when you become a parent time becomes the most precious and scarce commodity so yeah that’s how it started

Victoria (06:43)
Mm-hmm.

That’s really interesting. It was actually being in that chair with a coach that made you realize, I’ll see the value of it. And I think that that is, I mean, I can totally relate. I didn’t have a coach in my business until very, very recently. And understanding and recognizing the fast tracking that can happen, whether that’s in your…

business or just in your life in general, when you’re trying to process and work through things, doing that independently can take such a long time and it’s hard to focus. And also you’ve got conversations going on with people around you who love you and want the best for you and want you, but also want you to be safe and want you to be secure. And in that sense, you know, for better or worse have, have sometimes got a different agenda to the path that you’re

trying to find. And traditionally parents, you they want you to stay, you’ve got your corporate job, you’re doing the traditional thing because that’s the world that they grew up in and breaking away from it feels scary. And actually having that experience and feeling that transformation inspired you to go and get trained. And to what extent did you feel like you might take that and run with it and make that your business?

at that stage, know, 2016, 17, 18, do you feel like it’s motherhood that tipped you over into that decision? Would it have happened anyway in the formless of time?

Fiorenza Rossini (08:28)
I think it would, but perhaps later or perhaps something… I think I needed a catalyst really to kind of push me a little bit because it was killing my social life but I was doing it. I was doing a little bit of both, right? Well, not a little bit, I was doing both. And in 2016…

Victoria (08:38)
Mm-hmm.

Fiorenza Rossini (08:58)
It was, the idea was a dream. That I could move away, step out of working in a corporate and actually be on my own, have my own business, have my own clients. It was a dream. And I think the main reason for it to be like a remote dream at the start was because of the support system. Exactly like you said.

everyone around me was not a business owner and they really wanted the best for me and the best meant you played safe. You like it, you’re good at it, just carry on, right? Yeah.

Victoria (09:31)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm, yeah.

And that’s a really tricky one to process because it is meant with love. But actually going against that and forging your own path can feel quite scary when all the people you know who love you more than anything in the world are suggesting that perhaps that’s not the right thing.

And in a strange way, this kind of plays into belonging because these are your people and this is your community. This is your support network and you’re trying to do something that is a bit against the grain and you don’t want to do it and disappoint anybody. Also, you don’t want to do it and fail and have to go back and say, oh, you were right. It didn’t work. And there’s something quite courageous.

Fiorenza Rossini (10:17)
Mm-hmm.

Victoria (10:41)
in at that stage, you before you had children and before you have all those lifestyle justifications to take the leap, there’s something quite courageous about pursuing that dream against the general consensus of advice that you are winning. You just keep going. You’re doing really well. We’re proud of you. It’s hard.

Fiorenza Rossini (11:08)
It is very hard. And I’ll be honest, I have lost a few friends along the way because there was a point where I needed people to…

Victoria (11:14)
Mm.

Fiorenza Rossini (11:20)
shift from their protective mindset and you know, we just want the best for you and actually be supportive and be encouraging and show love in a different way and it can be draining when you need something else from someone that they’re giving you the opposite Yeah, so I had to let go of some friends and welcome new ones But that also kind of

you know, just adds a weight to the process. Yeah. Is that something you’ve experienced as well?

Victoria (11:54)
Yeah.

I think, wouldn’t say I’ve lost friends, but I think in terms of where you decide to place your energy and distribute your time, I think it’s definitely an interesting one because if you are in a place in your life where you feel like you’re ready for a big expansion, whatever that looks like, and you’re trying to move into this growth mindset and think about these possibilities for yourself in an optimistic.

Fiorenza Rossini (12:05)
Hmm.

Victoria (12:27)
and hopeful way, knowing that you will do the work to make it happen. But it’s kind of thinking like maybe there’s something more, something more interesting, something more fulfilling, something more rewarding, something that has more impact, something that lights me up more than this does, something more. But that phrase can translate as a sort of egotistical thing, which it is not. It is just about self alignment.

Fiorenza Rossini (12:44)
Mm-hmm.

Victoria (12:55)
you know, that you feel called to do something different. And in your head, it’s more and it’s bigger and it’s expensive and it’s better. But that doesn’t mean that you think that you are more than the person you’re talking to. However, I think sometimes it can be taken that way. You know, if you talk about your dreams, there are people who are not in that growth mindset and they are somewhere else and it can actually present…

awkward conversations whereby people perhaps just don’t understand and don’t get why you would leave this job that you’ve worked really hard for and you’re good at and you’ve got a good salary and everything’s fine and what are you doing? But there’s also a sort of darker side where people perhaps are in the opposite but they’re shrinking themselves and there are things that they’d like to do but they don’t feel like they’re in that place and they’re…

not experiencing that growth mindset and they are more pessimistic and they would like to keep you with them and you could be there together and you could keep each other company and then I think it’s about perhaps in that time in your life recognizing that the more time you spend with that person it’s going to limit your capacity to grow because it’s a downer when you are trying to be energetically forward thinking and bigger

and trying to kind of lean into this dream. And this other person might have dreams, but they’re not leaning into them for whatever reason. it’s, you know, each to their own and that their time might come and then they’ll come to you and they’ll be ready. But I think friendships and these relationships can be seasonal. And I think if you’re in a bit of a moment where you’re ready to grow, it really helps to find people who are in that space too. And personally, I’ve found those people online.

You know, have to find your tribe. And again, for your answer, it’s belonging and it’s companionship, it’s encouragement, it’s mutual support and positivity. You’re just aligned in your thinking. You’re all moving in the same direction and you are cheering for each other. And I think sometimes you have to switch tribes for a while and it doesn’t mean you abandoned the old one. It just means that.

for that moment in time, these are the people that you need in order to get where you wanna go. Does that make sense to you? I’ve rambled.

Fiorenza Rossini (15:25)
Absolutely. It does. It does,

it does. Yes, the seasonality of some people that you welcome in your life and they can come out and then come back in as well. And yeah, finding your tribe, I think. It’s, it’s… There’s such an amount, there’s such a huge amount of support and care.

Victoria (15:41)
Mm, yeah.

Fiorenza Rossini (15:56)
that you get from people that have been on the same path as you or that are on the same path as you and there’s something special about it. For us, business owners, freelancers, but I think it applies to any professions really, any kind of type of job you have. It’s quite, yes, it’s quite, it’s something quite precious to have a huge help.

Victoria (16:26)
Yeah, and I always sort of harp on about those communities that I’ve found and encourage everybody else to go and check them out because energetically, I think it’s really important. And it’s not often the case that you can separate yourself from some of the people in your life that perhaps don’t, and it sounds awful, but don’t quite believe that you’re gonna make it work. And you have to have some people to go to in those moments, you know, that…

do believe in you, even if they don’t know you very well, they just get it. So, so important. So tell me about that moment then when you became a mum. So this is 2019.

Fiorenza Rossini (16:58)
Yes.

2019, just before the pandemic. And I think that played a role as well because I was on maternity leave. when my son was born, I went on maternity leave and I was still working for a corporate, right? And I honestly had the intention to come back and to make everything work before I had my baby. And then…

Victoria (17:11)
Mm-hmm.

Fiorenza Rossini (17:36)
I had my baby, we were also in the middle of a renovation project, we had bought a house and we were like having things redone as you do, right? You have the baby in the sling and you go and visit your building site. And then the pandemic hit, right? So…

Victoria (17:48)
I did the same thing. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. I’m right there with you. Yeah.

You

Fiorenza Rossini (18:02)
Everything was different, everything was new. And I think as a new mom, you probably get thinking a lot. You know, I…

It was a huge identity shift for me to become a mom, but then also the world was in a different, weird place. And so that was scary as well, but then also, you know, it made me think about, so if I’m not doing this now, when am I doing it? Because anything can happen. And I think motherhood, but also the pandemic probably.

Victoria (18:34)
Yeah.

Fiorenza Rossini (18:40)
pushed me, you know, in thinking, okay, if not now, then when? What is the sign that you’re waiting for? I think all the signs are there for you, Fiorentha.

Victoria (18:49)
Yeah. We’ve got global collapse.

Yeah, it’s all there.

Fiorenza Rossini (18:56)
Exactly. yes, so that was the, it was the right time. It was the right time for me.

Victoria (19:04)
And so you let your employer know that you just were not gonna come back after maternity. Okay. And were you serving clients through that maternity leave, coaching clients? Were you still working in that respect?

Fiorenza Rossini (19:11)
That’s right.

I did take some proper time off because there was a point where we didn’t really have a house. But then it was hard to switch off. You I was still doing a few bits here and there. And yes, there were times where towards the end of it, I was back kind of, you know, working with clients and building on my business and kind of, you know, having pitches and…

Victoria (19:22)
Yeah. You had a lot. Yeah, you had a lot going on. Yeah. Yeah.

Fiorenza Rossini (19:48)
Yeah, trying to make it work, right? Thinking ahead, okay, am I really doing this? Yes, yes, am I confirming my signs? Yes, okay.

Victoria (19:59)
Okay, so talk to me about the evolution of it because you now have a team. Your company is not just you, but I presume at that stage it was just you.

Fiorenza Rossini (20:09)
Yes, so it yes, it evolved in the sense that I built strong relationships with other coaches, relationships and friendships, to be honest. And so I’m able to…

pitch on some projects as a team and work as a team. It very much depends on what’s going on, what’s the requirement that the client have and then being flexible on that. Sometimes it’s just me and sometimes we work as a team. It’s still work in progress. I hope that, yeah, I have, know, hopes and…

still some dreams, but also very conscious of the time that I have and my children being still so little and my daughter is only two and I want to be present for her and enjoy the time that she’s still a toddler and you know discovering everything. Yeah.

Victoria (21:18)
So was it kind of instinctive for you to hone in on this, I don’t know, this ideal customer avatar? This parent who is kind of navigating an identity shift, whether that be re-entering the place of work, whether that be having a change of heart or wanting to go in a different direction?

It feels like you really have a deep understanding of that person, whether it’s a mum or a dad, because you’ve been through it yourself. And was that deliberate? Did you think these are the people that I feel like I can help?

Fiorenza Rossini (22:03)
That’s a very easy answer, no. I would say I suffered from the coach syndrome for a long time.

Victoria (22:06)
Okay.

I don’t know about the coach

syndrome. What’s a coach syndrome?

Fiorenza Rossini (22:19)
I wanna help everyone, I can coach everyone. That’s also part of kind of what I was taught in my coach training, right? Because I don’t need to have, as a coach, I don’t need to have the same technical background or the same background as a person in order to help them create the impact that they want. And I do believe that. And I also realize that in the world that we are in, we do need to have…

Victoria (22:20)
Okay. Okay.

Fiorenza Rossini (22:50)
I don’t like the word niche, but we do need to have a messaging. We do need to be clear on exactly who is it that we are targeting because otherwise your message gets deleted and it’s very hard to pitch, right? And to be there, be still marketable. yeah.

Victoria (23:11)
Yeah, to be visible and yeah, yeah.

Fiorenza Rossini (23:16)
Career transition and leadership and career growth, that has always been my space. But then actually getting clear on who is it that I’m working with, who is it that I’m serving, for sure it’s been an evolution. But I think mostly it’s been observing who I was attracting, who was coming to me. Parents.

Victoria (23:41)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Fiorenza Rossini (23:44)
moms who were at a career pivot or at a career pivot sorry or moms that were going through a change of some sort in their work or or

in life, mean, beyond motherhood, what comes next after that. And dads as well. I do work with dads too. So there was a big realization that actually, yes, there is a big pattern here. And while I do work and I do enjoy working with other clients, I think it is true that to me, working with other parents and especially parents of young children, give me that energy.

Victoria (24:29)
Okay.

Fiorenza Rossini (24:30)
We are in the same boat together, right? So there is that kind of shared experience even if at end of the day I’m not talking about my experience. know, the coaching, in a coaching session it’s not at all about me but I think there is something perhaps about my energy in that space whether it’s in person or online that is, I would say, I think a little bit different.

Victoria (24:47)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.

Yeah, and it will naturally enable you to just understand where they’re coming from. And I suppose get to the root of their challenges because you understand the context that they’re coming from. You understand that they’re probably a bit under slept. They’re probably a bit overwhelmed. They’re probably a bit overstimulated. And when I say a bit, I mean a lot. And you will just naturally

meet them there because you get that. And so everything that you discuss, even though it’s not coming from you, it has that shared experience at the heart of it. And you’re right. Sorry for your renzer. My phone is ringing and I have to turn it off. Right. Okay. It’s right in my ears. And it’s Stevie Wonder, very superstitious and just started blaring right in my ears. Okay.

Fiorenza Rossini (25:27)
Yeah.

I can’t hear yet. I can’t hear it.

Victoria (25:56)
Okay, what was I saying?

Okay. I’m going to do a clap. This is what my audio editor says I have to do, the clap and then he’ll know.

But tell me, I imagine, and I have not dealt with a coach or employed a coach to help me through personal challenges. I’ve only very recently, like I said, literally in the last year, had a coach to help me move forward in my business. But I suppose what you do must overlap between the two because if they’re having a sort of, like I said before, a change of heart that they want to move in a different direction in their business, you’re also taking into account.

where they’re up to in parenthood. And do you find that people are problem aware that they understand the value that you can add in helping them process and move through that change? Or do you feel like in your messaging, you kind of have to identify that they have this problem that you can help them with? Does that make sense as a question?

Fiorenza Rossini (27:09)
I think it does. Some people are very clear in terms of what’s going on for them. We have different points.

Victoria (27:18)
Hmm.

Fiorenza Rossini (27:22)
different starting point with awareness that probably gets to where it is based on everything we’ve gone through before or any other types of support we’ve had. So some people are very clear in terms of what’s going on for them. Some are not, but they know that they need help or some sort of support to clarify and get a sense of, what do need to do next? They want to find some answers for themselves.

Because also I mostly with people that are employed and they… sometimes it’s offered to them, coaching gets offered to them.

And so they take it as a benefit. it’s nice. Cool. I have this. It’s great. And there might be a surprise, a nice surprise at the end of how much they actually got out of it. And they might want to explore something and then that something actually gets expanded along the way or it morphs into something else. And it could be that at the end of it, we’ve explored something actually

much deeper than what they had in mind at the start, which could be something great, but perhaps not as deep, if that makes sense. So there could be a great amount of surprise at the end of the coaching program when we spend a little bit of time on reflecting on the growth journey and everything that…

we talked about and the takeaways. It’s a great moment. It’s one of my favorite moments to kind of, know, pause, hit pause, sit down and reflect. Does this answer your question? I’ve lost track a little bit.

Victoria (29:12)
Yeah.

Yeah, think that sounds,

no, that sounds really rewarding for you, but I suppose I come at it from a place where coaching in inverted commas is still relatively new. It’s not something that we all inherently understand the value of. It’s not something our parents would have invested in. And culturally, I think we’re just sort of beginning to open our eyes to the value.

and the transformation that it can bring. And I think there’s still, I suspect there’s still an element of it’s a nice to have, not a need to have. And so I’m really interested. I think it would be really helpful actually for you to just say why you think coaching is really valuable and what you think it can do in terms of helping people find clarity in these moments in their life where they’re not sure of their next step and just.

Just sell it. Why should we all have a coach?

Fiorenza Rossini (30:19)
So I’m gonna preface it that it does take some time and energy, right, to get really involved into coaching. But the more you get involved, the more you commit, that’s where you see most, most of the growth happen, most of the results happen. When you work with a coach, I’m gonna…

quote what you said before, you are fast tracking your own growth. Perhaps you have some ideas of what you wanna do next and you can think about those ideas on your own with friends, you can journal. All this does take some good amount of time. When you are working with a coach, you have someone that basically is your right wing person.

just working for you. It’s someone that only have your happiness, your own interests in mind. So the fast-striking piece is very important, but also there’s a big element of asking you some provoking questions, some challenging questions.

Of course, when you hear those questions, it makes you feel uncomfortable. It can be about you, it can be about your business, but that’s also where the growth happens because it makes you uncomfortable. You have to stop a second, you have to pause and then think about it. Perhaps it’s, what is the reason that I’ve been doing this in this way for so long? Right, so I have to think about that. And then I think those types of questions are so important

because they are probably gonna be your driver of change, your driver of transformation. Also, having a coach, a qualified coach in front of you helps you see patterns, see what’s going on. Perhaps it’s been going on for years, personally, or in your business, in the way you work. And it’s very hard to see those things on your own.

It’s possible, but it is hard. And then once you see them, then what do want to do about it? Are there any tweaks? Are they working for you? Are they not working for you?

Victoria (32:33)
Hmm.

Fiorenza Rossini (32:47)
what’s holding you back, what’s in your way. So this is all kind of what we can do together with the coach. And to also come back on what you were saying before, yes, sometimes you hire a business coach and your idea is I’m solely gonna focus on the business side of things. And then what often happens, I don’t know if you’ve experienced this, is then something perhaps mindset related or some barriers

that have been there and perhaps have been holding you back for a while come up, right? Yes, they can be work related, but at the end of the day, they’re also very much personal as well. So it is very hard to completely separate professional topics and personal topics. And even if clients are usually very clear,

We’re just gonna talk about work here. It’s never. It can’t be because we are the same person at the end of the day.

Victoria (33:49)
you

Hmm. Yeah, I completely understand this. And I actually think, you know, building a business and I suppose it can relate to proactively looking to accelerate in your career if you are employed. These are areas where it’s very difficult to reach your goal unless you’re willing to open yourself up to some personal growth and development.

and inquiry because often like we all have bad habits and I say bad lightly, but habits, the way we behave, the way we focus our energy that come from somewhere and until somebody points it out to you, you don’t even know that you’re doing it. And actually that is limiting your capacity to get where you want to go.

And it might be that that comes from something way back in your childhood and you can’t get on in work unless you think about that. And it is about that pause, like you say, because we are a whole person.

And do you find that there are trends and patterns of challenge that I suppose mothers in particular will come to you with in those early years? Because I mean, we all agree motherhood, like becoming a mom for the first time is such a shift, such a seismic shock to your system. And like you said, you thought you were just gonna…

have maternity, go back to your career and also continue to grow your side hustle and just breeze through it all with this baby at home. Like we have ideas about what it’s gonna look like, but it’s very rarely that way. So what are some of the common challenges or obstacles or just, I don’t know, limitations that moms come to you with that they’re just really wanting some help with?

Fiorenza Rossini (35:57)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, great question. Confidence is a big one because when you take time off for your maternity leave, irrespective of how long you’re taking off, your confidence is shaken in some way, right? Because you’re not…

you’re not anymore every day in your business or in your corporate role and everything else is still moving on, right? So there is this sense of, okay, I’m not in it anymore. And of course that has an impact on your confidence.

You know, you’re also a little bit sleep deprived. I say a little bit, could be a lot. You’re thinking about, you know, how is my little one settling in at nursery or nanny, childminder. So you have all those things as well that are new in your mind and then you’re adjusting back when you return to work. So the confidence is a big piece that I tend to work on.

with mom returning to work. There’s also the identity piece. Some people had, some moms have an idea of how they had a vision of how they see motherhood working for them.

during pregnancy or before having a child and then the child arrives and sometimes it doesn’t match that vision at all and that can create a bit of friction, right? Because, right, so I had this idea, now it’s not going like that and then I have my work to return to, there’s this sense of overwhelm that can come in.

That can be something that we work on. So making sense of it all, of unpacking what’s going on, what’s actually truly important for you, what are your values and how do they now show up that you’re a mother? And also still on the identity, but a slightly different angle. Now I’m a mom and I also have, so I’m a mom and this is a big piece of my identity now.

But I also have this other big piece of my identity, which is my professional identity. How can I be as present as I want in both of them? How do I make it work? How can I juggle the childcare hours and then my work hours? How does that work? And more generally, just having those two identities work alongside and not against each other and then having that sense of kind of overwhelm

as well from that. There’s a big link with belonging there because you’re really trying to navigate two worlds and you’re trying to find your place in both. And it’s at the end of the day, even if we take one year off for a maternity leave, it is still a short amount of time.

when it comes to identity shifts. with the, you know, often the little sleep we have, we’re trying to ask ourselves very big questions. Yeah, I’m a big believer in compassion and, know, yeah, giving ourselves that little, you know, hug that we would give a friend.

Victoria (39:27)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Fiorenza Rossini (39:53)
difficult at times, but very much needed as well.

Victoria (39:57)
Yeah, you’re so right about that time scale. And obviously there’s conversations about maternity and statutory maternity being six weeks as if you’re supposed to have it all figured out by that point. And it’s a hot topic and paternity leave as well and that support element. But actually to process all of this and…

regain that confidence because actually it’s interesting when you were talking about confidence I thought you know we were told as girls that we could go and conquer the world you know we’re brought up with girl power and you know we were equal now and we could do anything we wanted and so we go out and we follow this path and you know whether we went to uni we got a degree we went and got our corporate role like you did and we’ve worked hard to get to that point in our profession.

And then we come out of it, we step aside or step away or step back even. And we are suddenly at that same time plunged into a role that we have no idea how to fulfill because that’s motherhood. When you bring your new baby home, you are clueless. You don’t have those skills. And a lot of us, because we don’t have that community, that village that, you know, from an evolutionary point of view, we would have had where we’re watching women raise children.

Fiorenza Rossini (41:05)
Mm-hmm.

Victoria (41:20)
at close at hand, day in, day out, we don’t necessarily have that. And we are to a large extent left to our own devices to figure that out. And actually, confidence comes from doing. You know, now you have children who are older, you would be confident if someone handed you a baby, you would know what to do. You remember your oldest, your youngest is two, you’d be fine. But on that first day, when you change your first nappy, you’re like, my God, I don’t, I’m not sure.

and now you want me to take this human home and take care of it. So not only are you stepping back from a role where you were confident because you’ve built yourself up to a particular position and you have an idea projecting forward where that’s gonna go, but then you’re plunged into a new role which you’re supposed to understand innately how to perform to the best of your ability with limited support and actually feeling quite isolated during that time.

scrolling through your social media at 3am whilst you’re feeding your baby and trying to get them back to sleep and having that sense of the world that you did belong to, it seems to be carrying on without you and that’s fine and nobody’s really noticed. And then it really, really impacts your sense of self. And then if you have a sort of crisis of what is my best next step, that actually everything you were doing before you just logistically do not see how that is going to fit.

with this baby that you have in front of you. It’s an awful lot to process in, you know, at best we are giving ourselves a year or we are given a year of paid maternity. It’s enormous. And then actually the return to work is kind of bringing it all up again because you’ve at least settled into this routine.

You have some baby groups, you’ve got some mum friends, you go and have coffee and you eat a piece of cake and you talk about it and that’s your therapy. And then the baby hits one and that goes as well. And that was your comfort blanket. Or, you know, if you have family or community nearby, least had time to be with them. And now you’re expected to change hats again and go back into the world that you kind of feel alienated from.

And things have changed inevitably. There’s someone else in that role and you don’t know them and they don’t know you and you’re expected to report to them or they’re expected to report to you or the way that the system works is different and you have to be on boarded again. And there’s something unnerving about that return as well. Do you feel like women that come to you are nervous or anxious about going back into the world of work?

Fiorenza Rossini (44:13)
Yeah, often, very much so.

There’s often a fear that we’re not gonna be understood, right? Especially if we are the first person in the team to have children, or if our leader doesn’t have children, you know, will I be understood? They won’t get what I’m feeling or what I’m thinking, or perhaps they’ll think that I’m not as good as my job now because…

I’m thinking about my child or I have other priorities that come alongside my job. So yeah, this comes up quite a lot. And sadly, understandably so, because we hear so many…

bad stories, you know, online, in the news. There’s lots to learn from those stories, but also it can be quite, it can create anxiety as well because, you know, then we are going back to work and we might think, wow, what if this is gonna be me now? And what if, you know, this is gonna be, what if this happens to me and I’m gonna be discriminated against? And we don’t know, we don’t know.

Victoria (45:24)
Hmm.

Yeah,

yeah, and that is a systemic cultural problem that that woman in that moment cannot fix herself. And it’s about keep having these conversations, I suppose, and keep spreading awareness of actually the maternal mental health dynamic and what is going on, because also there is less connection. Often in a corporate role, you you bond in the pub after work on a Friday, you know.

and you’re not going to be doing those things because you’re going to want to be home with your child. And so socially, it feels different as well. And that’s part of the kind of belonging piece that you have these shared moments, which are great in your twenties, aren’t they? Like that’s what it’s all about. And it’s all about your colleagues and your friends. But there’s so much that changes when you break it down like that.

And I actually think, God, I wish that I had had a coach. I really wish. But I didn’t know, I didn’t know. So tell me about your podcast. What made you decide to launch The Belonging Project?

Fiorenza Rossini (46:44)
It started as a pandemic project. That’s how it started. And belonging has been always a big topic for me for several reasons.

Victoria (46:49)
Okay.

Fiorenza Rossini (46:58)
First one, of course, the professional side of things. at that point, I had just moved full-time into coaching. Finding my tribe, my different communities was very much top of mind. And then more generally as well, it’s been a topic for me always growing up because I grew up in a multicultural family.

in a country that was not my dad’s country, nor my mom’s country. So they were living, so my dad is Turkish, my mom is Italian, and we were living in France. I was born in France, and I was going to school in France, and I don’t have a French name, right? So I know it’s a detail, and I feel French, mostly, right? That’s the identity, I guess, in terms of

the cultural identity that I do identify the most with but not 100 % because there is more to me and that matters but also because I often had this kind of otherness, foreignness, Having…

friends of friends, in social events growing up, people asking, you know, asking just a simple question, what’s your name? And then I tell my name and they go, so where are you from? From here. And as a teenager, it matters. And I think even before that, but I didn’t know it mattered so much, I couldn’t articulate it. So belonging has always been a topic for me.

Victoria (48:33)
Yeah. Yeah.

Fiorenza Rossini (48:49)
subconsciously or very much in my awareness. having… the podcast topic was just kind of easy to have, in a way, it just kind of came up. And then having conversations about belonging and how…

others find belonging and how they overcome situations in their life where they felt that they didn’t belong has been very much therapeutic to be honest with you and there’s been so much growth for me as well to be able to hold space for those conversations. It made me grow, it makes me grow and also I think it really gives insights into

Victoria (49:17)
Mmm.

Fiorenza Rossini (49:36)
what people are living through, some dimensions perhaps that we’re less in touch with because it’s a different life path. So it’s been great to bring those stories and experiences in the spotlight. I am now launching a new season of the podcast, which is gonna be focusing, still unbelonging of course, that is my thread and core topic, but focusing…

more on working parents and their experiences of their everyday life and challenges that can come up and how belonging fits into that. Yeah, very long answer to your question, Victoria.

Victoria (50:21)
I love

a long answer because I ask long questions. No, I love that. And I think actually there’ll be so many people who really resonate and feel seen by conversations like that. Because I mean, we’ve just sort of scratched the surface here in our conversation today, but there is so much layering.

on the psychological repercussions of becoming a parent, I suppose, particularly for the first time, but there are pressures with every child that you add into the mix and what that means for you in terms of your work life. And I feel like we are in a season of change in terms of what work looks like. I mean, some of that propelled by COVID, like you say, that we’re all kind of at home, which really sort of blasted open.

the internet and we all had to get on board with it. Whereas there may have been some people that were hesitant about, you know, realistically, how would online working, virtual working work? People didn’t think that it was going to be workable, but actually to prove that we can all get work done from home. And now there’s this kind of pressure for everyone to go back to work, but actually the parent thing, you know, flexible working.

is a lifeline for parents of small children. But there are all these dynamics at play, you know, and if you’re, because we’re pushing at the moment for more of this and for more understanding and more compassion for those people who are perpetuating the human race. And there is some resistance still, it’s going to be, and then you add AI into the mix and what that is going to do to the working world. And I think the next sort of 10, 15 years are going to be really interesting in terms of work. So,

That sounds like a really fascinating area to explore and to hear various people’s stories because everyone’s experience will be different and there are plenty of stories to go at. I’m sure you will not be short of guests. Yeah.

Fiorenza Rossini (52:30)
And it’s fascinating to hear about everyone’s

journey and where they’re at and very much so they feel seen to your point.

Victoria (52:40)
Yeah.

Fiorenza Rossini (52:43)
It will resonate with others and that is important as well because not only the person being interviewed is sharing and you know is feeling seen and heard in a safe space but also people listening they will feel seen because what’s being said is resonating and that’s huge, that’s really huge.

Victoria (53:06)
Yeah.

And ironically, again, it’s all about belonging. Like you can feel a sense of belonging with somebody who’s in your headphones that you haven’t spoken to ever or set eyes on in your life because you have a shared experience. And I think that’s why podcasting is so powerful because you don’t need to be in physical proximity to somebody to feel that affinity and to feel that connection. that, you know, that can be so uplifting and so comforting.

when you’re going through these sort of challenges. I can’t wait to listen to that, Fiorenza. I have one last question for you before you go. Tell me what you would say now to eight-year-old Fiorenza living in France, growing up with a Turkish dad, an Italian mom. What would you tell her if you could have a conversation with her?

Fiorenza Rossini (53:39)
you

That’s a great question. What would I tell her?

I would tell her to be even more curious, to be bold and be curious, to kind of emphasize the boldness on the curiosity, ask questions to my parents but also just to people around her at school, to…

not be scared to use her voice to ask questions and be curious. I need to find a more simple way to say this to her 8 year olds but it would be around that.

Victoria (54:41)
ask

lots of questions. I think that that does it. And actually that’s what you’re doing now with your podcast and through your coaching. So maybe she did, maybe she didn’t need that advice. She was always going to get there. it’s been such a pleasure. Ferenza, thank you so much for giving up your time today. I’ve loved this conversation. It’s been great speaking to you.

Fiorenza Rossini (54:50)
Very true, Victoria.

Thank you so much Victoria for having me.

Victoria (55:04)
Pleasure.