Episode 27: Navigating the Messy Middle of Modern Motherhood with Dr. Tuesday

Hello and welcome to the Mum Means Business podcast, where we shine a light on inspiring women who have one thing in common. When they’re not managing tantrums, homework, P.E. kits and play dates, they are busting their gut to create something from nothing, to turn their passion into a thriving business and build a better life for themselves and their families. We dig into what motivates devoted mothers to pursue entrepreneurship and how they integrate their work and family life.

I’m Victoria Phipps, your host, and if you’re an ambitious mum in need of some solidarity whilst navigating the messy middle of making your big dream a reality, then stick around. This is for you.

NOTE: This is the transcript from the original recording, rather than the edited episode so timings may vary.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (00:00)
pressure.

Victoria (00:01)
Okay. My guest today is an Essex based academic psychologist, speaker, writer and recovering perfectionist whose work explores the real emotional experience of modern motherhood. She’s grown an engaged audience online by sharing the raw realities of motherhood, which so many of us feel the need to filter out of our Instagram feeds. Her content brings honesty, depth and compassion to the feeling that mothers often keep hidden because

and she’s helping to reshape how we understand and talk about maternal mental health. Tuesday What’s Overall, AKA Dr. Tuesday, draws on her doctorate in psychology, the counseling skills, and hypnotherapy, hypnobirthing, and post-natal mental health training to support women navigating identity shifts, big transitions, unraveling and rebuilding, all with greater ease, adaptability, and resilience. In a pinned carousel post, she says,

I don’t feel guilty about working whilst my children are small. I see my work as the creative rest I need to be the best mother I can be, which when I read it made me feel seen and that is Tuesday’s superpower. So I am thrilled to have the opportunity to talk with you about this messy middle of motherhood and business building Tuesday. Welcome to the mum means business podcast.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (01:23)
Thank you so much for having me. I’m really really excited to be here and dig into our chat

Victoria (01:29)
I think we’re going to have lots to talk about. I think we’re going to have, we’re going to struggle keeping this within time. So let’s start at the beginning. You obviously have this academic background in psychology and now you are running your own business that you say is not really a business, but I think it is a business. So that’s a big leap. What made you do it?

Tuesday Watts-Overall (01:31)
Yes.

We might, we might.

It’s a big leap and it is a business. say business like non-business business, because I think like, as we’ve discussed outside of the podcast, I think the word business in itself has so many like connotations attached to it so much like we really kind of have these structured rigid ideas about what it means to run a business like this, you know, fixed thing. Whereas lots of us mothers are running a very fluid.

business, a very kind of fluid experience around wrapped around our, you know, job roles as mothers. So I think the word business just, it doesn’t feel like it fits, even though that’s what it is. But it was a huge leap and it all kind of, I mean, the seeds were planted when I had my first baby. I was, you know, working in an academic post. I was lecturing. I was researching.

I was, you know, answering to someone above me. had a line manager. I was part of, you know, a big system, kind of like a cog in a well-oiled machine. That’s how I saw myself working in a university. There were parts of my job that I loved. I loved the teaching. I loved the interaction with students. That was like my greatest joy above and beyond anything else. They were my joy.

but there were parts of it that didn’t work so well for me. The workload, the high pressure, the feeling like I was just hiding in plain sight all the time. I mean, you talk about imposter syndrome. I was living and breathing it as well in an environment like that. I just felt like any minute now, someone’s gonna catch me out and say, what are you doing here? You’re not good enough to be here. I felt like that every single day. And…

Victoria (03:39)
Hmm.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (03:45)
The job just didn’t feel like it worked very well alongside wanting to be there for my son at the time. I remember when I asked my boss, my line manager at the time when I just kind of started the whole nursery drop and pick up and working around all of that, I asked for some flexibility so that I could do the drop offs and pick ups and work in between. And she turned around and said a mother herself.

You don’t, how did she phrase this? She said, you don’t work around your childcare. You arrange your childcare around your work. And I remember thinking like, that’s just like saying, my children fit in around my job. My job doesn’t fit in around my child. And that just didn’t sit well with me. I mean, I know that that’s the reality of it, right? I know that that is real working.

Victoria (04:31)
Mm.

Yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (04:42)
life, like lots of people, their children do have to fit in alongside their work. But for me, I was like, I’ve made the choice to have a child. What that that style of living doesn’t work for me where my child just fits in in the cracks of time that I have available to him outside of my job. And it just felt like a job at that point. I think when you become a mother as well.

Victoria (04:46)
Yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (05:06)
the kind of magic almost gets sucked out of your job. You see it as just that, a job. It’s a priority on a list. It’s not, for me, it became not a core piece of my identity anymore that really like got sidestepped and pushed to one side. So I had to re-prioritize. I had to re-jig and reconsider, you know, what work was going to look like for me. And…

Victoria (05:13)
Hmm.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (05:35)
It felt really risky and really scary to even think about stepping away from that well-oiled machine. you know, it was like at the end of the day, I was a very replaceable part of it. It was like, I wasn’t going to be missed if I stepped away. Someone else would just step in my place. And it didn’t feel important enough to rearrange my entire life and experience of motherhood around a job like that. ⁓ So I sat with it and

Victoria (05:41)
Yeah, I bet.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (06:05)
I continued working, but sat with all of that and tried to figure out what was, you know, what I was going to do in the meantime, got pregnant with my second child. So I was like still mid transition identity shift with my first, got pregnant with my second, entered like another layer to the transition, fell in love with hypnobirthing and just the whole positive birth side of things.

Victoria (06:17)
Hmm.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (06:33)
had a really positive birth with my second and then thought maybe this is my way out. Maybe I do hypnobirthing. I become a hypnobirthing teacher because teaching was a real passion for me. I also felt really passionate about birth and empowerment and information and having all the tools and the knowledge that you needed to make the best choices for you and navigating and finding your way through the messy maternity.

system that we have here in the UK. Like I felt really passionate about that. So that was my out. I did that. I retrained. I also became a hypnotherapist because I don’t do anything by halves. So I was like, I’m not just doing hypnobirthing. I need to know how to actually be a hypnotherapist as well alongside that. So I did a whole diploma in hypnotherapy thinking that maybe I will use that to advance my hypnobirthing and

work on a deeper level with people with like actual fears, phobias, anxiety around birth, around breastfeeding, anything related to that perinatal time. ⁓ But that then just continued to evolve and I stepped away from university was giving everything to the hypnobirthing and hypnotherapy. And then I just, it felt like I just kept hitting a ceiling. Like I just still wasn’t getting out of it what I wanted to.

and my identity felt bigger than hypnobirthing instructor that I’d sort of box myself in. But like we were saying earlier, I had in my mind as well, written off the story that I’d been living up to that point. It was like I’d just boxed off the psychologist that I had been up to that point. In my head, I was like, nope, end of story, fresh start. I do hypnobirthing now, forget.

everything else that I’ve done up to that point, the fact that I’ve got a whole PhD in psychology, let’s mark that up because that feels like a different person and a different story. And then as I like kept going with the hypnobirthing, I became pregnant for a third time and it was like the two sort of stories and parts of my identity sort of fused together and I could see all of a sudden a bridge between psychology and not just birth but

lived motherhood that I was kind of in the thick of. ⁓ And it sort of started to fuse throughout my third pregnancy. And even throughout the first year of motherhood with my three children, it really started fusing and coming together and making more and more sense. And like you’re saying earlier, it’s just like a constant state of becoming and transition and learning and clarifying and like

Okay, when am I going to reach that moment of arrival where I know exactly where I am and who I am? Like, the promised land of like, right, I’ve figured it all out. I’ve got the solution. I’ve got the map. I know exactly where I’m going. And I feel like for the last three years, three or four years, I’ve just been in that process of becoming the entire time where it was like stepping away from the safety.

Victoria (09:29)
Hahaha!

the promised land.

you

Tuesday Watts-Overall (09:54)
of employment into my like running my own business, figuring out what is that business? What do I really enjoy doing? Like what really lights me up? What do I feel really passionate about talking about? Trying to figure out is, you know, is that viable? Can I actually make money from it? What does that look like? What offerings does that translate into? Do I enjoy offering those things?

because that’s been a huge piece as well. It’s like, okay, what does that look like if I am a coach now that offers, you know, this kind of service? Is it a one-to-one? Is it speaking? Is it this? Is it that? Do I want to do that? Like there’s so much figuring out that needs to happen. But I feel like I’m finally years down the line at a point where I’m like, okay, I know who I am now. I know what I want to talk about. I know what, you know.

where I can be of service in the world because I want my whole thing has always been I want to have impact, real world impact and watch it ripple out in a really big way and I now feel like I’ve finally arrived at that point but it’s been so so scary and disorienting and so like

I mean, it might look on the surface like I have things figured out all the time, but I haven’t for a very long time. And I’ve just been learning as I go and finding my feet. it’s felt really, it’s challenged me extremely deeply because as a perfectionist, everything was figured out and I made it look like, you know, smooth sailing, whatever I was doing. I was smashing every single goal I set my sights on and making

Victoria (11:34)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (11:43)
you know, looking the part while I did it. But this whole journey of like running a business has just stripped me down and just like forced, like brought me to my knees at time where I’m just like, I feel it’s really, do you know what it is? It’s made me really look at my sense of self-worth. And that’s been a huge theme for me because my self-worth has always been very closely tied to achievement and like tangible outcomes.

Victoria (11:53)
Hahaha!

Mm.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (12:13)
Whereas when you have your own business, it’s not so clear cut. And when you’re, you know, in the building phase of your business and you haven’t got those outcomes, you haven’t got those things that you can say, look what I’ve done. ⁓ all of that. It’s like, what am I actually worth anything? Like does this, you know, what does it mean about me? I’ve, that’s been the key piece of my journey. I would say over the last three or four years, it’s been.

Victoria (12:26)
You don’t have your KPIs. Yeah, yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (12:42)
untangling my, you know, self-worth and my feelings around myself with external outcomes and just trusting, learning to trust that I am moving and I will get there, but it’s slow and I’m still valuable and I still, you know, have something important to say and to share and impact to have, but it’s building. ⁓ so that’s a very long-winded answer.

Victoria (13:09)
God, Tuesday, I love it.

I think there are probably, I mean, I’m not so organized to have my pen and paper next to me. I do, but I’m not writing things down. I think there’s so many things I was like, right, we can talk about this, we can talk about this because it is so complex and layered. And I think the sort of experience that you describe will be so relatable because it’s this idea of, I mean, building a business.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (13:25)
gosh,

Victoria (13:37)
is like holding up a mirror to yourself in so many ways. You have to, it’s very challenging. It’s exactly the right word that you used because it’s so full of highs and lows and you have this big ambition, but getting there is not a straight path and you’re going to fail a lot. And if you’re going to succeed, you have to be willing to and you have to bounce back. And that’s what it’s all about. It’s a game of bouncing back until you hit the thing that works. And I think

Tuesday Watts-Overall (13:40)
Yeah, completely.

Yeah.

Victoria (14:07)
Like you, similarly, I was quite a perfectionist in my 20s. I wouldn’t do anything if I thought that I wasn’t gonna get it exactly right. I just wouldn’t do it. And so that for me has been a journey that I can relate to because it’s sort of getting over yourself in a way, it’s also like detangling everything you’ve kind of been told because I think if you’re kind of like a millennial now, you’ve been brought up.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (14:16)
Yep.

massively.

Victoria (14:35)
especially as a girl, that these are the things that you’re going to do. This is your path. You need to do this, you need to do that. And it’s very prescriptive. And actually then you find yourself in that academic role. You’ve done all of those things, but you feel replaceable and replaceable. God, that’s just so shit, isn’t it? To just feel replaceable because, and especially it seems like you had in your mind.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (14:51)
Yeah.

Victoria (15:01)
that, you know, this thing of like, in inverted commas, that you were meant for more, that you could have more impact, that you could, you know, have a positive influence and help people get somewhere or do something, have a transformation that they’re looking for. And you had things you wanted to say and you’re, in this role. And it’s interesting that the teaching bit is the bit that inspired you because that’s kind of what you’re doing now.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (15:14)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Victoria (15:28)
But

you put the whole thing in the bin when you started hypnotherapy. You’re like, I’m, yeah, cap, chapter end, new chapter start, which is quite a painful way of doing it.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (15:32)
Literally.

that’s just how… Yeah,

honestly, I don’t know. It makes no sense now that I look back at it and like, I just, in my head, it was like I just needed a clean break from that identity. And also motherhood feels a bit like that rebirth, doesn’t it? It’s like, right, I’m different now. ⁓ I do different things now. Who I was before is irrelevant. Where…

Victoria (15:56)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (16:04)
You know, the reality is that what’s happening is yes, you know, you’re kind of reborn when you become a mother and there are new things that come to light about you in that process. But also there is a bridging and emerging that happens. You know, there are some pieces of you, know, previous you that still have to come back in for landing and the new pieces and then they fit together and it’s like making sense of that. But I was in the thick of that transition where I hadn’t

I was still waiting for the old pieces to come back in. The new pieces were there and I was trying to, my very human brain was just like, right, I need to make sense of this. I need to figure this out. And this is, you know, I can just see the new bits here and maybe that’s who I am now. And let’s just go with that for a bit. And I was, I was in that process of becoming, but couldn’t really see it because I was in the thick of it. And it’s so interesting the words you use, you know, when you start a business, it’s like holding up a mirror to yourself.

Victoria (16:37)
Yeah.

Mm.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (17:03)
It is like that and I was doing that but I was wearing a mask as well. I was wearing not just one mask, I was probably wearing about four different masks where I was like being the person I thought I always had to be, know, presenting myself in the way I thought I had to and it wasn’t really me at all. So I was building a business, yes, but based on the, based on a mask that I didn’t realize I was looking at.

Victoria (17:09)
Mmm.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (17:32)
So there’s been all of that as well, that like unlearning and peeling back the layers and the masks. And I think that’s why it’s taken me so long to get here, to get here, like, you know, three or four years where I’m like, okay, I get, I know where I’m headed now. I have a map. I feel like I am the most me I have ever felt. Like I don’t even have the energy to pretend to be anything else at this point. Like I’m just…

Victoria (17:36)
Yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (18:00)
I’m peeled, I’m stripped right back.

Victoria (18:00)
Good!

Tuesday Watts-Overall (18:02)
I am exactly who I am. And that’s it. And like people say to me all the time, thank you so much for being just so real and unfiltered. And I’m like, I couldn’t be any other way now. I just don’t have the energy, the resource, the capacity to put on a front anymore. I just don’t have it in me. And I don’t want to have it in me either because that, having done that for so many years, it’s utterly exhausting to be something other than who you are.

And I was doing that my whole life. And this process of starting my own business has really forced it out of me where it’s like, no, you can’t build anything sustainable that isn’t who you really are. It’s just not, it’s not going to work. If it’s not true to you, authentic, like what you really want to do feels really good. It’s just not going to go anywhere. And that’s what I have learned over and over and over again.

and I feel like I’m finally building something. I feel like I’m starting again, which is really annoying, but I’ve made peace with that. I’ve made peace with the fact that I am building again, but from a more authentic aligned place than I ever have before. And that feels really good, but also really daunting because it’s like, ⁓ here we go again. I’ve done this before. And it’s not like my business has drastically, drastically changed, but

I have changed and I have pivoted over the last year toward where I really want to be. ⁓ But it’s not been easy. It’s hard.

Victoria (19:37)
Yeah, it’s really hard. And you’ve been grappling with all of that whilst also grappling with motherhood and that, that in itself. mean, these, yeah, well, but these are massive, massive identity shifts. These are probably two of the biggest, most impactful moves you could make in your life in terms of forcing personal growth. So you become, and I’ve done the same thing, so I get it.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (19:46)
Yeah, with three wild children.

Yeah, you’re in it as well.

Victoria (20:06)
I became a mum. Yeah,

I became a mum and had like this seismic identity crisis and I had all the parts, like I knew things about myself, similar to you. Like I knew that I wanted to have an impact. I knew that I was kind of driven and ambitious and that I wanted to do stuff. I knew that I wasn’t, I always expected I wasn’t going to like sink in to motherhood and just sit on the sofa. Like I just, it’s not, it never kind of.

just came naturally to me and I’m sometimes envious of women who do. But I knew all those pieces, I knew I had these ingredients, but I didn’t know what the hell to do with them. I knew that I had to have some sort of creative outlet, but I didn’t know what that would be because I’d taken my wedding photography business like you did with academia and I had just put it in the bin. I’m like, well, it’s not that now, so bye. And I thought maybe I’ll do something in gardening.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (20:41)
you

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Victoria (21:01)
Maybe I’ll do something, I opened a print shop. Like I did all these mad things, and they’re not mad, but I did all these like, you know, just testing and trialing because I was like floundering, like what is the next step for me? And I think when you’re also trying to figure out how to be a mum, you know, you’ve got three children, which is like a whole thing. I’ve really got two, but that’s a huge demand on your time. You’re sleep deprived.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (21:04)
Wow.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

it is.

Victoria (21:30)
in those early days is very repetitive, very mundane, but it also takes up a lot of your mental capacity. And you’re carrying all the information about all your children in your head all the time, where they’re up to in the day, when they last had their nappy changed. Like you have it all and it’s just buzzing around. And at the same time, you’re just like trying to figure out what to do for you. And to a certain extent, you just don’t know. And like you said, you know,

being mum, it’s the most important thing for most women. And to have that sort of sentence said to you by your former employer or, you know, the person who was senior above you when you asked for flexible working, that she’s basically saying it’s not the most important thing, your work is the most important thing and your children come second and you make that work, which is sort of…

Tuesday Watts-Overall (22:14)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, exactly.

Victoria (22:25)
The antithesis of what most women who are building businesses as mothers do is they’re fitting their business into the cracks of their day. She’s telling you, you fit your children into the cracks of your day. So it’s quite good that she said that to you because that riled you and that you rejected it. Yeah, yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (22:32)
Exactly.

Yes, my gosh it did. Yeah,

I mean I stayed in the job for another, ⁓ how long did I stay in the job after that? Maybe a year-ish. But I was just like, that decision made right there. I’ll be here, but I’m not gonna be here forever. You’ve just said something that’s really struck a nerve and I’m not prepared to live that way. So seed planted.

I will be figuring this out. don’t know what because I need this job right now. Like financially we need this job. We were about to move and all the rest of it. But I won’t be here forever. You’ve just literally lost me with that comment. ⁓ But yeah, it’s just it’s so disorienting and someone I mean, it’s interesting the timelines that it all happened for me as well because someone

Victoria (23:20)
Just killed it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (23:33)
said to me, I mean, I had a conversation around, you know, starting businesses and stuff with someone else, probably about a year ago, maybe more. And she’d noticed that I started my business or made my way out of academia around the time that my second child was born. And she was like, it’s interesting. It was like more was put on you in terms of demands and like, you know, more of your capacity was taken. But that was the moment that you decided to

⁓ start a business and it was almost like you had less control in your personal life and you were looking for that little piece that you could control and get some predictability from by starting a business, by carving out that thing for you, which is the truth. It was like a way of like reaching out quickly and grabbing onto something that I knew. But even that, there’s so many unknowns in that. was like I was looking for…

something, some kind of comfort and stability, but that’s not really what business, your own business offers you in the beginning. ⁓ Just not two words that you associate with it, comfort and stability, like not one bit. ⁓ But that was like, that was my mind’s attempt because, you know, the jump from one to two, found extremely difficult. And I think, you know,

Victoria (24:39)
No, it’s comforting and stable in the first three years of business.

Same, yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (25:00)
Lots of people have different experiences and some people will completely disagree and say, you know, zero to one was the hardest, two to three was the hardest, et cetera, et It’s all relative. my God, the temperament of your children makes all the difference. And my first born found the transition extremely hard. And so we found it extremely hard. And it was like, there was so many unknowns. I was trying to make sense of it all and trying to look for some kind of…

Victoria (25:09)
And it depends on your baby as well, yeah. Yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (25:27)
you know, solid ground to hold on to. And so I started a business, which was like wild.

Victoria (25:33)
Yeah, no, but I get it.

Yeah, of course. And anyone on the outside looking in would say wild, but I’ve had so many conversations. I mean, this is still, it’s a baby podcast. It’s about to launch its 16th episode. So we’re not far into it, but already I’ve had so many conversations with women who have said that their experience of motherhood was was one of…

firing on all cylinders that they and it wasn’t necessarily and of course you look back at it once you come out the other side and your kids are sort of starting school and it feels like a mad haze when you look back and you’re how was I doing all that stuff and why did I decide to start a business when I just brought my second child into the world and it doesn’t make sense but actually when you’re in it you just you really need something

Tuesday Watts-Overall (26:04)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Victoria (26:28)
for you and yes it’s a bit of control it’s like a project I suppose it’s a project and it’s project you you’re trying to it’s all part of the figuring out that you’re trying to find out your next step and it’s the creativity aspect because what you’re doing is so mind-numbingly dull in terms of the practical demand of course you know the emotional demand is a different thing but that has its own stresses you know you can I don’t know about you my second when my second was born my eldest had

Tuesday Watts-Overall (26:29)
Yes.

completely.

Victoria (26:58)
a sort of a sympathetic crying thing. like whenever the baby would cry, she would cry. And so we either had a little bit of quiet or kind of, you know, relative stillness versus two toddler, a toddler and a baby screaming. And it was such a sensory, I remember, think I’ve got PTSD for that, because I would get really nervous when the baby would cry, because I’m like watching the other one. like, please don’t cry too, please don’t cry too. And it was just…

Tuesday Watts-Overall (27:09)
Mm-hmm.

⁓ god.

Yeah.

Victoria (27:27)
For months she would do that. And it was like you say, it’s all part of that transition for them. And she didn’t want me to go to the baby. She wanted me to stay with her because I was hers. And it all makes sense, but it was a lot. And so I felt the same, like you just need an adult. You know, something that challenges a different part of your brain, where your creativity is. And that’s the bit of you that you’re trying to bring in from before you became a mom. And I think definitely,

Tuesday Watts-Overall (27:32)
Yeah.

after you.

Yeah.

Victoria (27:55)
There are women that I’ve spoken to that said that that’s just something that they just needed. They just had to have it. And it perhaps was their business or it was social media or it was like they’re taking up a hobby that they used to have and just trying to fit a little bit of that into the cracks of the day. Or it was exercise, but it was something that they had to have just for them. Do you relate to that?

Tuesday Watts-Overall (28:01)
Yeah.

Yeah,

gosh, yeah. And someone said to me recently actually that in the year after giving birth, a woman is her most creative, which honestly resonates so deeply with me because every single time post-birth, like that year after birth, I’ve just felt this deep need to create and to do something. Like it’s just like…

Victoria (28:24)
Yeah.

Mm.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (28:39)
you when I had my second baby, it just came roaring out of me. Like, you’ll do this, whether you like it or not, you’re going to be starting something here. And it was like, I was creating a business, I was creating content, I was doing this, I was doing that. And, it felt so good to be able to do it and to just let it come out of me. ⁓ and it didn’t feel like a tax on the energy that I had and

That’s why I do call it and I still call it my creative rest. And there are seven different types of rest. Lots of people think that rest is just physical rest, but actually there are seven different types of rest. And one of them is creative rest. It is the recharging, the restoration that you experience by doing something creative. It can be writing, it can be painting, it can be doing…

content it can be you know, whatever creativity or creating means to you If you get something out of it, it can be your creative rest and for me that is what my business is My you know, I write I create content I speak I engage with people that is my creativity outlet and I love it I absolutely love it and it doesn’t feel like work. I can’t call it work

And I think that’s why I struggle with calling it a business because in my head, the traditional business model sounds really exhausting and really taxing and really like energy and time consuming, which of course it is in lots of ways, but I get something like I get such a, an in like infusion of energy from doing my business, doing my work, doing my job, if I can call it a job, which

It is job, but it’s not a job in the traditional sense, because I don’t feel like I answer to anyone. But ⁓ yeah, it’s interesting that I think it’s a real creativity outlet for lots of us. And it offers that restoration that lots of us are really craving in those, especially those early years of motherhood. ⁓ I wonder if you relate to that as well.

Victoria (30:51)
Yeah, no, completely. And I think this thing about the definition of work and jobs and businesses, it’s, know, when we were growing up, it’s, you know, Richard Branson is a businessman. My mom has a job and it’s all very like defined. And then, you know, you’re sort of funneled through the kind of careers advice bit in school where they’re kind of funneling you towards your job and you will go to work.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (30:58)
Yeah.

Yes.

my gosh, you’re so, yeah, that’s so true.

Yes.

Yeah.

Victoria (31:21)
And actually

what I kind of see when I look around me now is this kind of quite exciting redefinition of work. I’ve always been, I think because my dad was a builder, he’s very entrepreneurial. And so I’ve grown up and I didn’t see him hate his work. I didn’t see him put on a suit, go to work, hate it. I saw him at times knackered and at times buzzing.

And I saw that it was human. I saw that it was this human experience that had highs and lows. And you’d have really challenging times where he’d just be like trying to sell a house in the middle of an economic slump. And it was hard. And we felt that. And then you sell a house and it’s like jubilant and you feel that. And it just felt in line with what it is to be human and to live. And so I’ve always really kind of rejected this idea that work is just something you have to do and it’s going to be miserable. And that’s that.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (32:19)
Uh-uh.

Victoria (32:19)
So I’ve always kind of had peace with that and I’ve always sought out a bit of joy in work. But there’s this kind of feminine approach to it, right? Where like, you don’t have to wear a suit, you know, you don’t have to have shoulder pads. Going back to like 90s references of when we were growing up, what you would see if you imagined a business woman, you know, she’s wearing heels, she’s got pencil skirt, she’s got…

Tuesday Watts-Overall (32:43)
Yeah.

Victoria (32:47)
a blazer and shoulder pads and she walks very determinedly and she has coffee and she has a very old brick mobile phone and she’s in charge of everyone. She shouts a lot, you know, and it’s just like, okay, well that’s very linear. You know, it’s kind of the Margaret Thatcher approach to being a woman in a man’s world. But what if we can just be women in the world and create a business that does enable us to support our family and be present for our kids the way we want to.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (32:54)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Victoria (33:17)
but also that we can have a positive impact. We can have purpose, we can have fulfillment and we can make money and we can do it in our own way. And like this kind of revolutionary idea of redefining what that is because I’m exactly the same as you. Like I have these stereotypes in my head of what all those definitions of work are. And I think it’s interesting to just like flip that. Like I think we need a bit of a revolution on it because it doesn’t work. know, women are exhausted.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (33:25)
Yeah.

Mm.

No, no, it doesn’t. But

yeah, but I think we’re seeing a real wave as well. ⁓ Not a dangerous wave, but I think we’re seeing it like swing too far the other way at the minute where we’ve had this rise of like mums doing, you know, starting things and businesses and this and that, which is what we need in this world, let’s be clear. But I think the pendulum has swung.

really far the other way where on social media, for instance, we are, I am bombarded and I know that lots of other mothers I speak to are bombarded with images of the boss mum, right? Where it’s like the woman who runs the business and has 10K months and has passive income and she’s dropping the kids here and there and everywhere and she’s wearing the suit. She looks immaculate. She’s got the walk-in pantry. She’s got the nails done.

Victoria (34:24)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (34:41)
She’s got, you know, everything is it’s that 90s version that you just said, but translated to 2025 literally. But she’s doing everything as well alongside that where she’s getting everyone to where they need to be on time. She’s cooking things, you know, from scratch and it’s all organic and she’s just rolling in money. it’s just honestly, it’s gone so far the other way now where it’s like.

Victoria (34:46)
Yeah, reincarnated. Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (35:08)
We now have a new ideal that we’re all looking towards where it’s like, okay, we’re supposed to be juggling and doing all of the things, but also taking really good care of our appearance so that we just look like unshaken by whatever we’ve got going on. need to look immaculate at all times. And you know, we’re waking up at four o’clock in the morning to do a 27 step morning routine. Lymphatic, honestly, the lymphatic drainage, the red light therapy, the

Victoria (35:31)
Morning routine, yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (35:38)
all of the yoga, the journaling, all of that before the kids even wake up and then they’re waking up and we’re making them an organic breakfast from scratch and then we’re dropping them to school, running our businesses and making 5k in a day and then we’re picking them up again and making dinner from scratch. It’s just gone so far the other way. It’s gone so far the other way.

Victoria (35:58)
Yeah,

and then I think to like go completely, you the pendulum swings back and we’ve got tradwife, you know, and she is going back in time. She is wearing linen. She’s frolicking in her garden and just picking out leaks that she sewed with her children several months ago. And you saw that on Instagram. And then she is tending to her chickens and it’s always sunny.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (36:04)
Yeah. ⁓ yeah.

Yep. Yep.

Victoria (36:27)
where she lives. And I think, again, all of these things are super unhelpful. I reject all of it. And this is one of the reasons why I wanted to speak to you because what you put out on social media is so intensely relatable. And it is none of that. And it is not telling anyone to be anything because that lady who’s girl bossing it and

Tuesday Watts-Overall (36:28)
Hmm. Hmm.

Yep.

No.

Victoria (36:56)
she has all of her ducks in order. Is that a thing? Ducks in a row. And she looks fantastic. And she has all her journaling is up to date. And she’s very bendy from all the yoga she does. And it’s all, she’s, you know, it’s, all immaculate. And she’s just, she, her phone beeps every five minutes because she’s just had another sale, you know, and that is absurd to most people. It’s not like,

Tuesday Watts-Overall (36:59)
Yeah, yeah, ducks in a row, yeah.

Yep.

Yeah.

Victoria (37:26)
it doesn’t feel attainable, but if you buy her course, you could be like her. And I think actually, and this is the thing, you I hope people are starting to get wise to the funnel and there’s nothing wrong with a funnel if it’s what you want, but if it’s sending you a lifestyle that is not going to be in alignment with you, because actually those things are exhausting. And I think, you know, she doesn’t talk about her nanny so much. She doesn’t talk about

Tuesday Watts-Overall (37:29)
That’s the thing, there’s always a funnel, there’s always a funnel.

Victoria (37:55)
the fact that she has an ironing lady. doesn’t talk about, all of that is still hidden. So I think it’s this idea of like hiding something. You know, the trad wife doesn’t necessarily show the messy side of motherhood. She shows the walk-in pantry where she has the eggs that she freshly collected from her chicken that morning. She shows, you know, all the perfectly color curated wardrobe examples that she can put her children in each day.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (37:57)
out here.

Victoria (38:23)
You know, everything is curated, it’s all a curation and social media is, you know, flooded with curation and it makes us feel like we have to curate just as mums. have to sell the best version of ourselves in order for people to like us basically. And that’s so destructive because actually that is not really what people like. People don’t want to see their friend who’s got it all put together.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (38:25)
Yeah. Yeah.

Victoria (38:53)
And it’s actually just makes them feel a bit rubbish because they’re looking around their house and it’s just the floor. can’t see the floor because the toys have just, they’re just growing and multiplying so many toys. And this person has a really lovely floor and it’s just been freshly vacuumed and no one wants that. And what you put out on social media is honesty, which is a kind of revolution in itself. Yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (39:01)
So many toys. Yeah. So many toys.

Yeah.

I hope so.

I hope so. I’m so sorry, Victoria. I’m going to just have to pause because my Sainsbury’s man has turned up an hour. He’s an hour early. It was supposed to be between, yeah, between 12 and what? Why is he here? And he’s just standing outside. What’s he looking? It will literally be like less than 10 minutes where I just fling it in the kitchen and I’ll be back once again.

Victoria (39:25)
go! It’s fine, go.

Go and do your Sainsbury’s and come back when you’re ready.

This is… It’s fine. No, put it in the fridge. Divide,

Tuesday Watts-Overall (39:46)
I’m so sorry.

Victoria (39:46)
sort it out. It’s fine.

Ho ho ho.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (48:56)
I’m so sorry about that.

Victoria (48:57)
It’s alright. It’s life. It’s alright, don’t worry. These things happen. It’s mum life in action. And also, I don’t know about you, you want to… ⁓ it’s fine.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (49:00)
He took forever as well. Ugh, that’s life. Bless him.

It literally is. I had scheduled it later. But anyway, he just

went, I’m sorry, I’m early and then proceeded to chat to me about something and then took about 10 minutes to get everything out. But anyway.

Victoria (49:20)
That’s all right.

It’s all good.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (49:27)
I have, I’ve pinned, I’ve pinned in my head where

we were. So the social media thing, I think we just, like everything that you’ve just said, we don’t see enough of what like I call the messy middle, the messy middle of all of that. Like you’ve got the trad wife on one side, you’ve got the boss babe, boss mum on the other side, whatever, whatever we’re calling ourselves on that end of the spectrum.

Victoria (49:49)
Babe.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (49:56)
boss mom, ⁓ we don’t see enough of the middle bit. And like, there are so many of us out here trying to do a bit of this and a bit of that. And we don’t really identify with one category or another, like we’re running businesses, but also maybe we’ve got the chickens. Well, I do, we’ve got the chickens and the ducks and you know, the outdoors.

Victoria (50:16)
I have a walk in pantry,

so you know.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (50:18)
There you go. We’ve got a bit of this and a

bit of that going on and you know, that’s okay, but we don’t strongly identify with one end or the other. you know, we’re doing all of it and it’s not perfect and it’s a bit chaotic and it’s a bit messy and ⁓ a bit, just a tad. And you know, that’s certainly where I see myself and I just like scrolling through social media, just…

Victoria (50:33)
A bit. Yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (50:44)
for a while there, I just wasn’t seeing anything I could really relate to, where it was like, I really see traces of my real life in what that person’s talking about. I just wasn’t feeling that. More in line with like motherhood. And I think that’s what really spurs me on to share in the way that I do, because it’s just like, people know, you know, I have my own business. They also know that I like to cook and I like, you know, I’ve got my chickens and this and that and…

I feel passionately about food, but there’s a lot of chaos that goes on here and I don’t get it right all the time. And I’m, you know, a highly sensitive person who finds noise and mess really, really difficult to deal with, but I live in and amongst it. And yeah, it’s just, it’s messy, but that’s my real life and it’s not perfect. And I don’t have the energy to filter it anymore. So I don’t.

Victoria (51:32)
Mm-hmm.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (51:43)
But that’s, it turns out that’s what we need to see. And that’s what I get messages. I mean, I have been swarmed by messages recently, especially from mothers who are just like, I can’t tell you how like healing your content is because I feel like finally you, someone saying, talking about the life that I’m living and I see myself in it. And I’m just so grateful that finally I can come to this space and feel like I’m seen.

Victoria (51:58)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (52:13)
⁓ and I’m heard by someone else. So that’s why I share in the way that I do, but also that is my actual life. I’m not like trying to be, you know, one way or another, because I’m also aware that it’s become very trendy to be messy. I don’t know if you’ve, I’ve noticed this in the motherhood content as well. It’s become a real like trend to be like, well, this is, you know, this is the mess and this is, you know, it’s just.

Victoria (52:33)
You can’t, yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (52:42)
everything becomes a trend and becomes in itself a curated piece of content but that is my real life and that’s why I share it ⁓ but yeah

Victoria (52:53)
I think

it’s consistency though, isn’t it? You trends come and go. And I think what you’re doing is really beautiful in that it releases women from that relentless feeling of not enoughness because, you know,

Tuesday Watts-Overall (52:58)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Victoria (53:16)
you go onto social media for entertainment, know, we’ve all, you know, we’re moms, you need a bit of decompression at the end of the day, you might end up, I don’t know if you’ve ever done this, like just scrolling on your phone in bed, very unhealthy, I’ve heard, but we do that sometimes. And it’s, it’s quite affronting to just be bombarded by images of other mothers supposedly doing it better than you. And then you go to sleep on that, or, you know, you take that into your

Tuesday Watts-Overall (53:26)
Yeah.

Victoria (53:45)
pitch that you’re doing in your business or you take that on the school run with you and it breeds this sort of doubt that we have in our own, I don’t know, performance as a mum and as a business owner because it works both ways and actually it’s part of the reason that I started this podcast because I don’t think that’s helpful at all and I

I don’t think it’s helpful to do that with a view to selling somebody your life. And I think we are all very complex. We all have different ambitions and different definitions of success, but that sort of content can pull you out of your definition and put you in someone else’s and therefore you’re failing. And it’s really damaging because

It’s a distraction for one, it makes you feel like shit for two, because you don’t have chickens, nor are you turning over 10K months, where are you? And you’re in the messy middle. And that’s what this podcast is about, you know, because I think that ordinary people can do extraordinary things and extraordinary as well is dependent on your own definition. It’s just about fulfilling your ambitions and goals, whether that is just to be content.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (54:44)
Mmm.

⁓ Yes.

completely.

Victoria (55:08)
and enjoy your family and make that work life work for you and fit the work in the cracks of your family life. Or whether it’s to actually achieve 10K months, I don’t care, but I want to be a kind of an empowering space where women feel like you’re not on your own. You know, it’s hard at times, really, really, really hard. And what you do showing that kind of raw honesty, which is blended with like, I don’t wish my children away.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (55:19)
Mm.

Victoria (55:38)
Like, I want them, need them desperately. They are now a part of me and my life revolves around them. But it’s okay to say that and to also say that it’s hard and you’re overwhelmed and you’re overstimulated. I mean, that’s massive. I feel I’m the same as you. Like, I can’t have the TV and the radio on and have someone ask me a question. It’s just too much. I’m like, one of these noises has to go away like immediately before I can address anything.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (55:42)
Mm-hmm.

you

Yeah. Yeah.

Victoria (56:07)
And that’s massive. And I think it’s just that mess in the middle and allowing people to just live there. You can be in this mess and just be figuring it out and that’s okay.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (56:16)
Yeah, I think like everything you’ve just said is exactly what I try. It’s the feeling I try to create for people. And especially, you know, I do it strategically at the end of the day. I share my content at the end of the day. And I was saying this to my husband the other day, you know, I do share content in the evenings for a reason.

Like, okay, my audience are the most engaged at that time of day. They are the most active according to my Instagram insights. But also I know that it’s the end of the day. It’s after bedtime. Mothers have lived through the chaos of an entire day. They’ve lived nine lives in one day. They’ve got everything done. Everyone’s in bed. They’ve maybe been working in their business all day alongside all of the other things that they’re juggling.

They’ve just put everyone to bed, they’ve sat down, they’ve picked up their phone, they’re scrolling through, and in all likelihood, they’re seeing things in this space that they’re not gonna resonate with, but they’re gonna compare themselves to. And they’re gonna use it as a measuring stick to beat themselves over the head with and say, why can’t you have done it this way today? Why can’t you be better?

Why can’t you do it that way? Look at what she’s doing. Why can’t you do that as well? They’re going to use it like a yardstick to beat themselves with. And so I post my content at that time of day as a little circuit breaker to be like, hang on, hang on before you go any further. Let me just pop this reminder here on your feed for you that you’re not alone. Lots of us are living the same chaotic, noisy, messy reality. We’re all just doing our best and that’s all right.

Victoria (57:45)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (58:01)
You’re not alone in that. And so it’s very intentionally, I don’t like the word strategic actually, intentionally placed so that it will find moms when they might be needing it the most. And like you say, hopefully they’re not going to bed with the, you know, the benchmarks in their head, but they’re going to bed with some more self-compassion than maybe they had before they found my post. Maybe they’re heading to bed with…

Okay, I can try again tomorrow. Tomorrow’s a new day. I’m doing all right. I’m actually doing better than I think I am. It’s all going to be okay. There are lots of us out here doing exactly the same thing and that’s normal. That’s real life. It’s this or that, this way or that way. We’re all kind of in the messy middle bit doing a little bit of this, a little bit of that. We’re making it work. We’re getting it wrong sometimes. We’re not perfect. We are…

Victoria (58:43)
Exactly.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (59:00)
getting stressed, we’re shouting at our kids, we’re getting overstimulated, but we are owning up to our mistakes, we’re repairing, we’re having self-compassion, and we go again tomorrow because that’s what we do as mums. And it’s just a little, I hope my posts feel like, I always say to people, I’m sending you a warm virtual squeeze, and I hope that that’s what my posts feel like, just to squeeze, just to be like, you’re not alone.

We’re all in this together, whether it feels like that or not.

Victoria (59:28)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I think it’s really refreshing. And I think actually it’s a gift. And just, mean, to be strategical, you you give birthday gifts on people’s birthdays. So, you know, it’s just intentionality, isn’t it? You know, you’re giving it, like you say, you’re just, you’re, doing it when it makes sense. If it doesn’t land with the people you need it to land with, it’s not a gift, it’s wasted. So that’s, I don’t think that’s overly strategic. I think that’s just trying to help as many knackered.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (59:42)
It’s intention, yeah.

Yeah.

Victoria (59:58)
mums as possible and I think that’s brilliant. So let’s talk about strategy. Let’s talk about strategy. So you’re kind of going through this moment where you feel like you’re starting again. So what is it in your business that you want to do? What’s the change you want to see and how do you want to bring that about?

Tuesday Watts-Overall (59:59)
Yeah. Yeah. Literally. Aww.

Yeah.

Mm. Yeah.

So I started this year ⁓ very much in my coach identity. So offering one-to-one sessions. ⁓ I thought in my head, maybe I’ll start a membership as well as like a low ticket way of working with moms, like on a bigger scale. Turns out that took a lot.

both of those things took way more energy, time, resource than I had available to me having three young children and being the primary parent as well. So I was like, this is not lighting me up, number one. Number two, it’s just too much of an expense on me in every way possible. And it’s not giving me the payout in terms of energy, rejuvenation, financial, like.

Output as well. It’s just not paying it back to me in why I’m you know, it’s not it doesn’t feel like an equal energetic exchange Let’s put it that way in every sense of the word ⁓ but I also well, I’ve known for a long time that I really wanted to work in a In a really broad impact kind of way and I’ve always always thought I wanted to write a book

Like always, my whole life I’ve always seen myself as writing a book one day. And I have struggled over the years with what’s that book going to be about? Again, looking for predictability, security, wanting to know exactly what’s what. I’ve sat down a few different times over the years and tried to write a book and it just never really went anywhere because I was like, this isn’t it. There was always a voice inside that was just like, this is not it. You will know when it is it.

And at the start of the year, I was working with a brand and I was writing a piece for them. ⁓ And I sat down and I wrote this sentence and in the sentence was a phrase that ⁓ became the name of a book. And I got so excited that I just sat and thrashed the whole like outline and proposal out for this book. And so since then I’ve been working on

Victoria (1:02:24)
Yay!

⁓

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:02:37)
a proposal for a book trying to find, I have got a literary agent I’m working with, but trying to find a way to get my foot in the door with an actual publisher to get a book deal. But that has obviously that creative outlet. I love it. And that feels very me and it’s also very time consuming. But that’s one kind of branch of my business. In the meantime, I have thought, well,

Okay, that’s my creative outlet, as is my content on Instagram, which I get lots and lots of feedback on all of the time, which is really nice and it really strengthens and bolsters my proposal for my book because it all centers around the things that I talk around. ⁓ But also, instead of working one to one, I have wanted to pivot into more group sessions. So

doing more in the way of corporate talks, in the way of brand partnerships. So not partnering with brands in an influencer-y type way because that doesn’t really fit with me and it kind of gives me the ick. The whole influencer culture gives me the ick. ⁓ But I do think it can be done and I’m trying to do it in a very intentional, very aligned, impactful way.

So working, so for instance, this year I’ve ⁓ been working with Bugaboo. We have a wonderful partnership where I bring expertise to what they’ve got going on. So I bring my psychology, my insight, my lived motherhood experience to them, what they’ve got going on. And then we use it in some way to bolster what they’re doing. So for instance, earlier in the year,

I did a talk at an event for them all around the benefits of getting outside for our mental health as mothers, which I live and breathe anyway. That’s my life and also my expertise. And we’ve been working along that vein for as the year has gone on really. So working with brands and organisations in a very expert led purpose driven way that feels really aligned, really intentional, not.

What’s the word? I don’t know the word I’m looking for, but not in that traditional kind of transactional influencer type relationship where you send me something I post about it. That kind of thing. That’s not how I work. So, but I am working with brands and with businesses. So on the business, like corporate side, doing talks around maternal mental health, around perfectionism, ⁓ that kind of thing.

Victoria (1:04:57)
Mm-hmm.

I put that in the ad. Yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:05:21)
you know, motherhood related talks. But that’s the bit that feels a little bit slow at the minute. I’m partnering with two organisations who do corporate talks and who I work with. So that’s quite nice because I have their support. But it feels like I’ve started again in that way where it’s like I’ve pivoted. I’m working in a different way. I’m not completely changing niche or changing, you know,

who I am or what I’m about, but I have pivoted in what I’m doing, the output, know, what I’m creating in terms of writing, in terms of speaking, in terms of like where I’m taking my expertise. It’s branched out beyond just a one-to-one session, but like, you know, in a bigger, I keep looking for a different word, but I can’t find it in my brain today.

but looking to share it in a more, in a broader, impactful way. So that’s where I am at the minute, but I feel like I’m just slowly, slowly taking baby steps in this new domain, if you like, that I now find myself working in. It’s moving, but it’s slow. I’m definitely not a 10K month boss babe at this point, but who knows?

Victoria (1:06:16)
You

Mm.

One day you might

have chickens and 10k a month.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:06:45)
Wow, can you imagine?

Can you imagine? I guarantee someone will still be having a meltdown in the background about something or another. ⁓ It won’t be smooth sailing, but that’s where I am. So I’m very much like writer, speaker, you know, mother at this point.

Victoria (1:06:52)
Yes! ⁓

Yeah.

I love it though. And

the fact that I can tell it kind of feels aligned and you’re so wise to kind of clock that lack of equilibrium in terms of the time for money exchange because I’m kind of in that myself right now because I am overworking. And you can do it for a short time if it’s a means to an end. There’s always a deadline, there’s always something, but I think

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:07:31)
Literally. Yeah.

Victoria (1:07:34)
I’m kind of teetering into, this my new life? Where I have five hours sleep at night, not because the children are keeping me up, but because I’m choosing to work. And it’s the tension between the creative rest that you speak about and that decompression at the end of the day. And also are you hustling without really meaning to? And I think particularly with the podcast, because I’m really keen for the same reasons that you speak about, you know, just to have a broader impact and to let

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:07:38)
you

Yes.

Hmm.

Victoria (1:08:03)
women know that like you’re okay. And also if you have an ambition to do something like this, here’s a lot of women who are doing it and they’re doing it in their own way. It’s not a kind of toxic, ⁓ hustle driven, masculine energy type business. It’s something that works for them. And I don’t feel like there are any rules. I think that’s really exciting. Like you literally can just figure it out, which is what you’re doing. You know, you’ve tried some things and you might have enjoyed it, but ⁓

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:08:12)
Yes.

Yeah.

Victoria (1:08:33)
you’re finding you’re too exhausted and the payback isn’t justifying the amount of energy that you’re putting into it. So you tweak it and you try something a bit different. And I think there’s, because of what you said earlier about your request for more flexible working and that there was a woman that came back to you and request denied, I think there must be a massive

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:08:38)
Yeah.

No.

Victoria (1:09:01)
And I don’t know if there’s a desire, but a need for some education around motherhood in corporate workplaces, because actually, and again, it kind of links into paternity, you it’s all the same thing. Actually, the corporate world is losing incredible women because it won’t allow them to breathe. It’s trying to fit women who become mothers into the same box

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:09:24)
No.

Victoria (1:09:29)
as the men who are secondary in terms of the parenting role have fewer responsibilities or the box that they were in before they had children and that box they’ve outgrown it and it doesn’t work. but that doesn’t mean that they have a lot to offer. know, mothers are intensely productive. They’re not messing about taking one hour lunch breaks and sitting by the water fountain chatting about what was on EastEnders last night. They’re not doing that. I don’t know if people still do that. That’s what I’m showing my age.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:09:39)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

Thank

Victoria (1:09:58)
But like,

yeah, they’re not doing that. They are on it and they’re their work done because they have to leave at 2.45 to go and get their kids from school. And they’re not going to let you down because they hold themselves to a high standard. So it’s a loss for the corporate world. And a lot of these women are going on to do just what you’ve done and what I’m trying to do and build a business that has a really broad positive impact that is making the world a better place for our kids to grow up in.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:10:26)
Mmm.

Victoria (1:10:28)
and taking all those skills and putting them somewhere else. So I think in terms of corporate and speaking and education, I think there’s a lot of space there for you to move into. It’s just how do you kind of create that desire because you’re kind of dragging them into 2025 and beyond in a lot of cases.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:10:41)
Yeah

Yeah, I

think, I mean, it’s a huge, it’s a big thing. It’s become a big thing since COVID corporate, like wellness talks. But there’s lots of people doing it. ⁓ But I feel like, and the people I work with feel like I have found my thing that I offer to them. And a lot of it, it relates to what you just said around, you know,

people really underestimate not just what mothers are capable of, but what they’re juggling all the time and their own personal experiences that they are living through alongside their jobs. And A lot of what I like to talk about to big corporates is the messy middle of maternal mental health, because a lot of the time conversations around maternal mental health live in extremes. You’re either unwell or you’re thriving.

Like there’s no middle ground for mothers. That is the truth, isn’t it? Either you are scanning for signs and symptoms of some, you know, some illness, unwellness, state of imbalance, however you like to call it, or you’re coping and glowing and grateful and gliding through motherhood effortlessly. But actually, most of us are somewhere in the messy middle of that where our mental health…

Victoria (1:11:42)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:12:08)
fluctuates, it ebbs and flows. Some days we’re doing okay, others we’re not. Our mental health is this living breathing thing that responds to what we’ve got going on, whether it’s the lack of sleep, it’s the increase in demands because of illness, it’s the increase in juggling. It’s a living breathing responsive thing, not a fixed state of wellness that so many people think that it is.

What I really want to bring to organisations is an awareness of that and an ability to support mothers in their mental health as they juggle all of their roles and as they, you know, make everything happen, which they do. Like you just said, they are absolutely like laser focused when it comes to things generally, because it’s like, right, I’ve got X amount of time.

Let’s get shit done. We need to get this done because I’ve got some pickups to do and I’ve got dinner to cook. Let’s go. They are hyperproductive because they are under constraints that other people aren’t. But that does require some support and awareness as well because they are not machines at the end of the day. Yes, they might be laser focused and hyperproductive, but they’re not machines, they’re human beings and they have a mental health.

that is as responsive to what’s going on as their physical health is. know, our physical health is in flux and changeable depending on how well we’re taking care of it and what pressures and demands we’re dealing with. So is our mental health. And that’s my thing, my sweet spot that I wanna talk to businesses about. And I’m trying to get my big toe in the door to talk to more and more of them. It’s going, it’s going and it’s getting somewhere, but it’s building.

⁓ and so strategy wise, we’re talking strategy wise, just like, you know, trying pitching, connecting, networking, using my connections. ⁓ like I say, I partner with work wellbeing, I partner with the parent, the parent gap. so doing more and more of that stuff, but putting myself out there as well so that it happens more and more people hear about it.

Victoria (1:14:01)
Yeah.

Yeah, and I think actually that’s, it’s a niche thing, but, and I’m gonna speculate, if I had a corporate role and I felt like during particularly that early season of motherhood, my seniors were sensitive and supportive of me during that time, encouraging and helpful and

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:14:29)
Mmm.

Victoria (1:14:54)
I don’t know, just that they listen to me. That’s a key thing, right? Because everyone’s experience is different. And like you say, it’s ups and downs. If I had that experience, I think I would be shouting from the rooftops about what a great employer I had. And I think I would be loyal as hell. And I think I would be working my ass off for them because actually that is such an intense time for a woman. And so often, so many stories like yours of just like,

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:14:58)
Yep. Yep.

Yeah

Mm-hmm.

Victoria (1:15:23)
listen to me, I’m asking for a thing that’s really going to help me and the computer says no. And actually if, if companies can mature a little bit and see this pressure for what it is and have their eyes open to it and be supportive and be helpful and be flexible, then they’ve potentially got, you know, a really, really committed loyal employee there for years to come.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:15:26)
Mm. Yeah.

Victoria (1:15:51)
You know, that intensity is, you know, fourth trimester, probably, you know, first five, six years. And then afterwards they’ll start to get their breathing space back a little bit, but they’ll be so grateful. And then you’ve got this really bonded team, you know, the rewards, it might seem like a little thing, but it’s just human connection, isn’t it? And understanding and the rewards could be massive.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:15:51)
Yeah.

Hmm… ⁓ yeah.

Yes.

Literally.

Yeah. And like you just took the words out of my mouth. It’s just being seen as a human being going through something pretty mega, ⁓ alongside trying to keep up with your, you know, real life and your old identity. And you know, so many organisations, businesses just don’t see mothers with that human centered.

like through that human centered lens, just see them. Like I felt very much just seen as that cog in the machine and not seen as a human being going through something very deeply transformational at the time. And I just needed someone to turn around and be like, what you’re going through right now is really hard. How can we support you in this? How can we recognize and acknowledge that what you’re going through, the shift you’re going through is

pretty seismic right now. How can we just see you in that? How can we just see you in that instead of just like brushing me off, making me feel unworthy, less than like I couldn’t keep up like all of the things. It’s just seeing mothers as human beings. And yeah, I wish I wish and I hope that more and more organisations do it. So if anyone’s listening who has an employer who

Victoria (1:17:33)
Mmm. Yeah.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:17:35)
brings brings people in for wellness talks.

Hire me to come in and talk about this because I feel really passionately about it. And I know in my bones that there are mothers out there who would benefit from this because this is the stuff I talk about on my Instagram and it’s the stuff that I get the most messages about is just being seen as a human being in the messy middle of whatever they’ve got going on. So I know that it’s impactful, but I’m just like

Victoria (1:17:42)
you

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:18:05)
I need momentum. yeah, mothers, let’s band together.

Victoria (1:18:08)
Well, there’s some strategy right there.

No, absolutely. And this is the thing. I don’t think it’s just mothers that would benefit. I think it’s the employer that would benefit as well. If you go into it and think, God, know, women of a childbearing age are a bit of a pain in the ass, aren’t they? They just piss off for a year, have a little relax, watch some TV and come back and expect to pick up where they left off. That is an attitude that we are dealing with. And the reality is so off the scale different to that. And I think

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:18:15)
No. Completely.

Well, yeah.

you

Yep.

Yeah.

Victoria (1:18:37)
there is plenty of space for this sort of education. tell me where can people, or actually, no, I forgot. I have one last question for you before I ask you where everyone can find you. So how old are your children? I don’t know.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:18:45)
⁓ come on.

They are six, four, and one. It’s chaos. It’s chaos. Someone’s always crying. Sometimes it’s me.

Victoria (1:18:56)
Okay, young, okay, yeah.

Sometimes it’s you. ⁓

gosh. Okay. So you’re a mom. You are a business owner. You are a business owner. You are an academic. You’ve done loads of cool stuff. What would you say now looking back to your eight year old self?

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:19:23)
my eight-year-old self.

Victoria (1:19:25)
Mmm.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:19:27)
Whoa, eight years old. Let’s think of what I was like at eight years old, very much in my just wanting to fit in era. Especially at school, I went to school where there was a group of girls where it’s like one day you’re in, one day you’re out. And I was generally more often than not on the out. And that really affected me and I just wanted to fit in.

all of the time. I just wanted to fit in, I just wanted to be accepted ⁓ and I think I’ve spent most of my life feeling like I’ve never quite made it into this elite group of women ⁓ and I’m always on the outside. I’ve spent most of my life feeling that way but I think I’m now at a point where I’m just like I don’t need the approval of the elite group of women that I have

probably imagined in my mind exist out here. It’s okay to not be in the group. It’s safe for you not to belong to a group. You will find your own group and it’s safe for you to just be who you are. You don’t have to change to fit in with anyone. And I think that lesson has taken me a long time to learn where I’ve tried to mould and mask.

and reshape myself to fit into boxes and stereotypes and fit in with groups and yeah I think I’m finally at a place where I don’t feel the need for that approval anymore because I’ve got kind of unconditional self-approval which is the most important thing but at eight years old and for all the years after it I just didn’t have that so I think it’s that sense of belonging

I wish I could offer that to myself at eight years old, the sense of belonging without actual belonging in the group and to know that that can come from you. You can create that sense of belonging for yourself and that sense of approval ⁓ and that you’ll be okay, even if you’re not one of the cool ones, which I never am.

Victoria (1:21:40)
I think you’re really cool.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:21:43)
my

god, I’ve never been called cool before. I’m not cool. I’m not cool.

Victoria (1:21:50)
No, that’s

lovely. And I think we can all relate to that. think eight years old, I kind of pick it because it’s kind of like coming to the end of the kind of beautiful innocence of childhood and starting to become more self-aware. And yeah, the friendship groups and all of that stuff just starts to kind of come into play and impact us in a way that

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:22:10)
Yeah, very.

Victoria (1:22:19)
probably sets the tone for our teenage years and everything that comes afterwards. And I think, you know, it’s complicated. The perfectionism then comes in. You’re just doing whatever you can to please people and the people pleasing and all of that. And I think maybe it’s particularly kind of our generation. I know you’re a little bit younger than me, but that seems to have been a common journey that we’ve all been on. So definitely that can.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:22:23)
does.

Yep.

you

Victoria (1:22:48)
come from within I’m working on it too it’s all a process

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:22:50)
Yeah, it is, it is a

messy process, but we get there.

Victoria (1:22:56)
Yeah,

we will. So tell me where can everybody find you and definitely Instagram because that is where I found you and it’s a beautiful place to be. Tell me all the places.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:22:59)
Hmm.

Yeah, so I am on Instagram at I am Dr Tuesday. You can also my website is I am Dr Tuesday.com. am on TikTok, but I feel slightly too old for that space. A lot of the time I feel like I’m not my my generation are not there my the millennials. I mean, they say they’re there, I put out something the other day and I was like, Millennials, are you here? And a few people commented, but I feel like it’s a slightly younger, more fast.

Victoria (1:23:35)
You

You

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:23:40)
space than ⁓ Instagram and for that reason I’m not as engaged on it but it’s the same username at I am Dr. Tuesday so for any of the young Millennials listening or the Gen Z’s that’s where I’ll be ⁓ but yeah same handle everywhere at I am Dr. Tuesday and just come find me say hi drop me a DM I’m always in the DMs chatting ⁓ yeah that’s where you’ll find me and I’ll

Victoria (1:23:55)
You

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:24:09)
I’d be so happy to have you in my little tiny corner of the internet.

Victoria (1:24:15)
Amazing. Thank you so much for your time today, Tuesday. I still haven’t asked you why you’re called this, but I think that’s a cool name in itself. ⁓ Maybe we’ll talk about that when we switch up. But thank you. I’ve loved the conversation. go on, tell me.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:24:24)
⁓ thank you.

That’s all right. I’ll quickly I’ll quickly tell you. So there was an actress

there was an actress in the 50s or 60s called Tuesday Wells or Tuesday Weld. I can’t remember. I think it was Weld. My mum thought the name was really cool. She thought Tuesday was a really cool name. So did my aunt. And my mum said if she had a girl because she didn’t know what she was having if she had a girl who was born on a Tuesday, she’d definitely call her Tuesday and I was born on a Tuesday.

Victoria (1:24:54)
No.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:24:56)
So she was like, that’s it, the name. So yeah, that’s who I am Tuesday, but I get that a lot.

Victoria (1:25:00)
Awesome!

It’s brilliant though. It’s unforgettable. It’s cool. It’s cool. See you are cool. There we go. Thank you so much. I have loved this conversation. It’s been brilliant. I appreciate it.

Tuesday Watts-Overall (1:25:05)
Thanks. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks. Yeah, me too.

Thanks for having me.