Episode 21: Finding Yourself Again After Motherhood With Keeley Bolton

Hello and welcome to the Mum Means Business podcast, where we shine a light on inspiring women who have one thing in common. When they’re not managing tantrums, homework, P.E. kits and play dates, they are busting their gut to create something from nothing, to turn their passion into a thriving business and build a better life for themselves and their families. We dig into what motivates devoted mothers to pursue entrepreneurship and how they integrate their work and family life.

I’m Victoria Phipps, your host, and if you’re an ambitious mum in need of some solidarity whilst navigating the messy middle of making your big dream a reality, then stick around. This is for you.

NOTE: This is the transcript from the original recording, rather than the edited episode so timings may vary.

Victoria (00:02)
My guest today is the founder of Moon and Dusk, an indie jewelry brand. I’m going to start that again. I always have to rerecord these. Like, my guest today is the founder of Moon and Dusk, an indie jewelry brand creating dainty celestial inspired silver pieces designed to help women reconnect with their sparkle. After years raising two children at home, she had come to think of herself as just a mum and began to crave a creative outlet that was just for her.

Keeley (00:08)
Okay.

Victoria (00:32)
It was working with Silva and designing unique jewelry that captured her imagination and helped her reconnect with herself. Inspired by the moon and the different seasons of life we all move through, Keely Bolton set up Moon and Dusk in her spare room and has grown it into a thriving small business which aligns with her family life. Keely is now passionate about showing other women that it’s possible to build something meaningful after motherhood without losing yourself entirely in the role. Keely, your jewelry is beautiful.

I’m so impressed by what you’re doing, sharing your story online to inspire other mums at the same time as marketing your one-of-a-kind creations. And I can’t wait to hear your story in your own words. So welcome to the Mum Means Business podcast.

Keeley (01:14)
Hi, thank you so much for having me on. That was such a lovely intro, thank you.

Victoria (01:20)
You’re welcome. Well, I’m really intrigued to hear about your story because when I kind of stumbled across you on social media, there was so much about this kind of loss of identity, which can happen when you become a mum. And you can so absorb yourself in that role. And often it’s hard to just carve out a minute to do things for yourself.

And so this idea of finding a creative outlet and starting a business, what made you do it? How did it all come about for you?

Keeley (01:59)
This, let’s just dive right in. Yeah, I mean, it wasn’t, I don’t think it was like a conscious thing. Like my whole story, I think I got so caught up in motherhood because I just loved it so much. It was so exciting. I just loved every, I didn’t love every minute of it. Yeah, there were poopy nappies that weren’t, I wasn’t loving those. But you know what I mean? Like just having that opportunity, the kids.

Victoria (02:00)
That’s die-frying.

Nobody does, yeah. ⁓

Keeley (02:29)
were amazing and it was just a really, really overall happy, exciting time. And I think it was so easy to get lost up in it. And I live in Scotland, all of my family live in England. My husband, he started working away when the kids were really young. So it was just so easy just to give them everything. Like I was the person that was there 24 seven, there wasn’t a lot of help to kind of step in.

or anything like that. And so yeah, it was super easy to get lost up in that and not have any time, like you say, like you’re so busy, you don’t always have the time to spend on yourself. And I wasn’t really thinking about me anyway, because I was having fun and enjoying it. And it wasn’t until the kids started school and I had a bit more spare time, you you do drop off and you get home and you bowl the kettle, you’re like, right, what am going to do today? And it was just like a blank, like I had nothing.

outside of being a mum so I would like spend hours like making elaborate like I don’t know like I used to make lunch boxes with sandwiches that were in the shape of castles and like I would the house would always be like pristinely clean and like the dinners I’d like come up with all these like interesting dinners and stuff and I was just kind of like doing that I think because I didn’t

Victoria (03:40)
my god.

Keeley (03:55)
really know what to do outside of that for me. I just completely lost touch with myself. I didn’t know what I liked watching on the TV, so wouldn’t sit and put the TV on. I didn’t have any hobbies anymore. I’d lost contact with a bunch of friends or a lot of the friendships that I made were based around the kids. And then outside of that, again, you’d socialize with the kids, but it would be, I don’t know, it didn’t feel natural necessarily way socializing without the kids there.

So yeah, I think I’d kind of like accidentally just cut myself off from pretty much everything that I used to enjoy doing or spent my time on. yeah, like I said, wasn’t until they started school that I kind of realized that I needed to like spend a bit of time on me, find out what I enjoy doing again, because you can’t just spend your whole life making castle sandwiches and like doing the ironing.

Victoria (04:49)
You know what though, I bet they were

very popular at school and I bet all the other kids were going home and telling their mum, Keely made such and such castle sandwiches with all these mothers, like, God.

Keeley (04:53)
They were so good.

Yeah, well, do you know the funny thing was,

right, so my son, he was obsessed with Pokemon at the time, so I made him like cheese Pikachu sandwiches, so they were like little Pikachu sandwiches, and he was like, Mom, I don’t want Pikachu sandwiches, I want chocolate spread in my sandwiches, and I’m like, oh, I know, right? So I would be sitting there.

Victoria (05:10)
my god, that’s so cute.

Oh my gosh, that’s too ungrateful. no. I mean…

Keeley (05:23)
He didn’t want the Pikachu sandwiches in his lunch box so I’m eating Pikachu sandwiches for my lunch. He’s got chocolate spread, yeah. Yeah.

Victoria (05:28)
Of course, yeah, well, we all do that. Yeah, yeah. We’re all

just surviving on our kids’ leftovers, I think, at a certain time in our lives. But I think it’s so important what you said there, that actually you just loved it. Like, I have so many conversations where that kind of sense of just overwhelm when you become a mum. And there is a kind of ⁓ a grieving, in a sense, of the version of yourself that you were before.

Keeley (05:35)
Of course. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Victoria (05:57)
but there

is also this excitement of this new role and being able to kind of sink into it and just soak up every minute, really lean into being a mum and actually the joy that can come from being able to do that. And it sounds like it was quite an isolating experience anyway, if your partner’s not at home with you, you do kind of…

Keeley (06:13)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Victoria (06:27)
On one hand, you’ve got no choice. You’re doing all the things. And I had a spell in early motherhood with my first when my partner was away for quite a big chunk during the first six months of her life. you don’t, you just get on with it and you find your rhythm, just the two of you. And then the three of you, you will find a routine that works and…

Keeley (06:42)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Victoria (06:54)
you’ll incorporate all these lovely things into your day that kind of you all buzz off. But it is that point, suppose then having had that amazing and you must have had such a close relationship with your children when they went to school and you’ve had that amazing season together. But then when your youngest goes to school and there’s nobody at home with you and like you say that kind of moment where you put the kettle on and

Keeley (06:58)
Mm-hmm.

Mm. Yeah.

Victoria (07:21)
You know, when you have a business, you think about the school day and how short it is and how, how the hell are you going to get all the things done that you need to get done? But actually if you’ve been stay at home mom, and your entire focus has been on the children and home and obviously, you know, putting so much effort into just creating this amazing experience with mom and making the Pikachu sandwiches, like actually to close the door, come in, make you a cup of tea.

Keeley (07:25)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Victoria (07:48)
and then just stare at these four walls and think that you actually don’t know what to do with yourself. And I remember periods in early motherhood where my partner would say, I’d just be really overwhelmed. And he would say, like, well, I’ll give you some time. What do you want to do? And I was just, don’t know. And that was just a few months in. it sounds, he feels kind of pathetic. Like, of course, you you should know.

I was like, don’t know if I want to go to sleep. I don’t know if I to go out. I don’t know if I want to do exercise. I don’t know if I want to read a book. I just don’t know. And just the idea of having to decide that, I think when your brain is kind of quite frazzled in those early stages, it’s too much in itself. It’s kind of almost easier to keep going in mum mode and just not to stop. Because actually when you stop, particularly when your children are old enough to go to school and they’re just that little bit more independent, did you feel quite, I don’t know.

Keeley (08:15)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Victoria (08:44)
lost or bewildered in that moment.

Keeley (08:46)
Yeah,

yeah, think it was, well, it’s kind of, it’s hard to explain, guess, because I didn’t feel lost because I just felt.

I think the best way to describe it is, even though I didn’t have a job to juggle and all the rest of it, I did feel like our days were really full. We were always doing stuff and I didn’t like doing things like housework or I didn’t like doing things that I could do when they were sleeping or when they were busy while they wanted me to play with them. So there was a lot of catching up. Like at the end of the day, we’d have dinner and we’d sit and like have cuddles and read stories and

have a bath and all the rest of it and they would come down once they were sleeping and the house would be a wreck, all the dinner stuff would still be out, the toys would be out, they’d be like washing around and stuff so I’d be trying to like work through all of that. So I did feel like my days were quite full and then when they went to school I felt like great I’ve got a period of time now I can get ahead on all these things, get the dinner sorted, get all the washing done, get all the housework done so I’m not having to juggle that while they’re back and they can just have my whole attention. So it, it

I didn’t necessarily have that feeling of lost until I kind of got caught up in all of that kind of stuff. And I think it was when it’s a, they even when my daughter went to nursery when Harry was at school, cause there’s like a two year gap. And it was when my daughter started school and I had that big chunk and I was used to getting everything done in like the first bit when she was at nursery. And yet having the big chunk, that’s when I started thinking like even silly things like I would.

drive to the shop and go and put music on and there was no music on my phone that wasn’t like a Disney song or a Pokemon song or something like that. And music used to be such a big deal for me. Like I used to like all my spare money when I was like in my twenties would go on gig tickets and ⁓ buying music back in the day before like you couldn’t just like subscribe to Spotify or anything. And yeah, back in the olden days, yeah. ⁓

Victoria (10:32)
You

Yeah, buying the CDs, HMV, yeah.

Keeley (10:54)
Like all my friends, like that’s what we would do to socialize. That was like the conversation that I would have with people, like how I’d start like relating to people, like figure out what music they liked. And then that was something that I could like build a rapport with them about. sitting there and like not having any music, I was like, ⁓ my God, who am I? Like, who is this person that doesn’t have like that? And it hasn’t listened to any music for so long. ⁓ So yeah, I think at that, it was at that point that I started feeling lost. ⁓

Victoria (11:12)
Yeah. Yeah.

Keeley (11:23)
It was kind of, I guess, like a sort of realization ⁓ that all these parts of me I’d started, and I was like the queen of hobbies before I had the kids. Like I was doing all the things and then to have like lost touch with all of that as well. ⁓ And yeah, not knowing how to spend my time. But it’s like you were saying where like your partner will say like, just go and have half an hour, what do wanna do? Like the guilt that comes around that as well, I think is what.

It’s easier just to get on with the mumming because then you don’t have to, it’s almost like you’ve trained yourself to feel guilty to say no to doing stuff. So yeah, there’s the washing needs done. You just do it because it needs to be done. If you say no to the washing and sit and have a cup of tea, you’re kind of like, you have the guilt of sitting there knowing that you’re going to have to get up in a minute and sort it out. So I think, yeah, it’s…

Victoria (12:15)
Yeah, and

you can trick yourself into, used to, I mean, I probably still do. It’s like caring for my future self, because my future self needs to do the washing. And they also need to do, and it’s this kind of chronic productivity aspects. And I think mothers can easily fall into that because just the domestic labor is massive. And it’s stupid stuff, like I really, and you carry these things around in your head, like I really need to sort through.

Keeley (12:23)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Victoria (12:42)
all the two to three clothes because she’s moving into three to four and some of them will fit and some of them won’t. And then I need to put that to one side. I need to do a charity shop run. it’s just these things and you’re carrying them around in your head. And I would think, well, I could have a cup of tea and sit down, but then I’m just storing up problems for my future self because my future self will then have three things to do. And if I do the washing, then my future self has two things to do. It’s just, and these are like strange bargaining.

Keeley (12:43)
Yeah.

Victoria (13:10)
things that are going on in my head, but so often I deny myself a cup of tea. Because I’m like, but I just, it’s that thing of needing to get ahead all the time to just keep on top of it. Because actually, at home, you know, you, you want your home to be a place where you feel relaxed and you can rest and you can all be together, just be without the doing.

Keeley (13:10)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Victoria (13:32)
but there’s so much doing that has to happen to get it into a state where you feel like you can look around the room and be relaxed because actually so often you look around the room, I’m looking around this room now, it looks very nice behind me, but there are just piles of toys everywhere and it’s not very relaxing. And I think we live in such a state of overwhelm with young children. And I know it’s the same with teenagers, like it’s just different habits of leaving their stuff everywhere.

Keeley (13:34)
Yeah.

you

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Victoria (14:00)
that just having a kind of organized space is calming and it’s a constant balance. And so I would deny myself the cup of tea, because I think, well, it’s not productive. And then you’re just into a whole world of pain, because nothing that is kind of restful is also productive.

Keeley (14:03)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, do you know

the thing is though, and this is something that I’ve learned over the years is that that to-do list, so if you’re thinking right, there’s three things I need to get done, if I do one thing now there’s only two things, that something will always hop on the end of that list. So that time that you think like, know, future Keely, if I do this now future Keely will be able to sit down. No, she won’t because someone will spill a drink or someone will announce that they’ve got homework that they need to do or.

Victoria (14:34)
yeah.

I

Keeley (14:46)
I don’t know, the doorbell will go and then it will be like 50 kids off the street running around crazy in the house. There’s always something, you never get to rest. So like, think just changing your mindset sometimes to like, I’m gonna grab this five minutes while I can, because there’s five minutes and no one’s asking me to make a snack. Sometimes you just need to go for that. But it’s hard to kind of get your head around that for sure. Yeah.

Victoria (14:52)
You

It’s probably a learning

curve, it? And it’s a lesson that I’m still very much in the thick of learning.

Keeley (15:18)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

The other thing that’s funny as well that you said about like how the room behind you looks so nice and tidy, but it’s a mess. We were, me and my daughter were looking at videos like every now and again, like if she has trouble sleeping, so sometimes she’ll try and get to sleep and she’ll come down and she’ll be a bit upset because she can’t sleep. So what we do is we look at like old videos of when she was a baby to like get a giggling and stuff and happy and then back up to bed.

Victoria (15:26)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Keeley (15:44)
So we looking at these videos and they were like really old ones from when she was like a little like potato on the play mat. And then my son was like just toddling around and she was like, ⁓ my goodness, mom, the house was so messy all the time. And like, it was just toys. But the rule we had in our house was like, if you’re playing with something in the middle of playing with it, like the house will always start off tidy.

and I’ll end the day tidier, but in between, if you’re playing with something, just have fun, like, you know, get it out and play with it kind of thing. So yeah, I was just trying to explain to her like, yeah, it was, but like, that wasn’t something that she remembered from when she was little, like the house always being messy. So I was kind of thinking like, yeah, it doesn’t make a difference. If you’re dealing with the mess, I know sometimes it is hard to relax when the house is messy, but

Victoria (16:29)
Yeah. Well, kids don’t care.

Keeley (16:41)
Like no one’s gonna in 10 years time or like five years time, whatever, no one’s gonna remember if the house is messy or not. What they’re gonna remember is like playing the fun games and like doing the things. They’re not gonna remember if like it was tidy in the background. And I wish almost I could go back to myself and tell myself that because the amount of nights I had to stay up to like half 11 at night. I was like stacking up the cups and like putting the blocks away and the duplo and everything. it just honestly, was.

Victoria (17:05)
Yeah, definitely.

Keeley (17:09)
biggest waste of time I’d ever bothered with. I could have been sat without cup of tea, but no. was thinking about.

Victoria (17:15)
I know, but that is definitely something I remember that from their babyhood. I remember,

because we have a big play mat, I’m looking at it now, it’s still there behind the screen. And it was just covered in toys, but it’d be like jigsaws and puzzles and like the stackers and all that stuff. And I would, I think at sometimes I would do it three times a day, just go and like do a jigsaw and like get all the puzzles back in. And I’m like, why, why? And I remember a friend coming over for a play date and my daughter’s favorite was like this dougie block puzzle thing.

Keeley (17:24)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Victoria (17:45)
And I used to put them back together. She must’ve only been six months old or something. And I used to them back together so often. And it was just new mom stuff. And she had two children who were much older. And I texted her afterwards. was like, I don’t suppose you’ve seen Norrie? Because like it’s Alice’s favorite. She must’ve got, I haven’t ever talked about it, but she must’ve got a message and been like, for God’s sake, Norrie’s gonna get lost. Like I just was still, I had one child who was just sitting up and just playing.

Keeley (18:00)
You

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Victoria (18:14)
and

no one was running around the house, there was no chaos at that stage. And I was just like, no, need Nora. And she’s like, I’m sorry, I no idea. Just because you’re still in the frame of mind of like adult tidying. And it is definitely a lesson that we all kind of will learn in our own time, I suppose. So tell me, how did you get into this sort of mindset that you needed to find something else?

Keeley (18:17)
Yeah.

Yeah, could be anywhere.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Victoria (18:42)
something else

to do with your days that wasn’t. Now your house is organized and you feel on top of stuff and you’ve got your sandwiches straight in the lunchbox. What made you think, okay, did you kind of go in in deliberate search of something? How did that work?

Keeley (18:49)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Well, just when I was trying to just figure stuff out and think, right, I’ve got a bit of time, start like getting a hobby or like find something to do, we got thrown into lockdown. So we went into that. So it was homeschooling, like in the house 24 seven, no one had any privacy or space or time or anything. And like, I nearly imploded, like I found it so hard and I loved.

Victoria (19:12)
Okay.

Keeley (19:27)
lockdown because I loved us all being together. I loved us having that time. But from a point of view when I was so used to like having the house pristine and like the kids kind of going to school and having their space and it just I couldn’t get everything done in the time that I needed to get stuff done. weren’t enough hours in the day. And I was like, I can either get like

just OCD about everything and like try and juggle all the things, like try and do home schooling while I’m hoovering and all this kind of stuff, or I can just let it all go. And I just kind of had to let it all go basically. And then ⁓ when the kids went back to school, because I’d got like, I didn’t iron a single piece of clothing, like the whole of lockdown. And I would spend a good eight hours ironing, like before that, like it was obsessive. ⁓

So I actually freed up a lot more time when they did go back to school because I kind of got past that level of just kind of getting in the routine of over giving. think that was the thing. I got out of the routine of over giving where it wasn’t necessary. I would still kind of like be present for the kids and everything, but going, just going to extreme lengths like the Pikachu sandwiches, like no need.

they can have just a square sandwich or a triangle. They’re the two options. You don’t need castles and Pikachu’s. So then I was just a bit more chill, I think. ⁓ at that point, I just as a Christmas present actually ⁓ for Christmas 2021, I think it was, I’d seen ⁓ like a jewelry making course, like a free one online, but you needed like a few materials to start off.

Victoria (20:53)
Hahaha!

Keeley (21:16)
So for my Christmas present, I got the materials that I needed for that. So it’s silver clay and like a blowtorch and stuff like that. So it was just, I think it was under a hundred quid for this thing. And I gave it a go on the free tutorial that the lady was doing. And I just absolutely loved it. And the parts about jewelry making that I’d loved were also the parts about being a mom that I loved as well. So like the spontaneity.

the problem solving, the kind of like fulfillment of it. I mean, I got quite a lot of fulfillment from like doing something from start to finish and like seeing it. But obviously like as a parent, obviously that’s fulfilling like being a mom. So there was lots of like crossover things and I gradually started just realizing that although I had felt like I was lost up in mom, it was just because the mumming was taking up all these parts of my personality that

like I knew were there, I was just using all of the, the mum was taking up all the time. So then once I started the jewelry making, I realized like all these parts of being a mum that I love, they’re parts of my personality. And it’s not that that’s disappeared. I’ve just only applied them to that one thing for so long. So yeah, I just found like being at the bench working on the jewelry was kind of, it gave me some head space. It just gave me a bit of peace.

I had to concentrate so hard on what I was doing, it helped me switch off from all that mental load of parenting, the, what have we gotten for dinner? How long have I got to be before I pick someone up? Where have we got to? I was always planning ahead and trying to like be 10 steps ahead so I could be organized for everyone and juggle all the balls and make sure that everyone was sorted. And that never really switched off even when I was relaxing, like even when I was.

like sat watching TV, I’m sitting thinking about lunch boxes and you know, what time I need to do things the next day and what uniform needs to be washed and all these kinds of things. So yeah, when I was at the bench, because I was concentrating so hard on one thing, it needed all my focus and it kind of switched me off from everything, gave me a bit of like mental peace, I think for an hour or so. And then…

Yeah, I just felt like I had a bit of a rest. felt like a bit, even though I wasn’t resting, I was doing something. It did just kind of shut me off a little bit from things. ⁓ And then I felt like when I got back, I kind of had a bit more energy. I wasn’t feeling so, ⁓ I don’t want this to sound negative, but kind of bogged down. Like sometimes you feel that there’s so much going on that you don’t slow down enough to necessarily always enjoy.

little things in between the big things. So I found that it kind of helped with that. ⁓ And yeah, and the business kind of just grew from that because you can only wear so much jewelry that you make for yourself before you realize that you need to start selling some of it. So yeah, I think that’s where it kind of came from.

Victoria (24:28)
It sounds like you really needed it because…

Keeley (24:30)
Mm.

Victoria (24:33)
I mean, how many years was it from when you first became a mum to when you did that online tutorial?

Keeley (24:41)
Yeah, so I did that in 2021 and I became a mum in 2012. So it was a good like decade-ish. Uh-huh. Yeah.

Victoria (24:49)
So that’s a long time. Yeah,

that’s a long time. And it’s so easily done, but you kind of relinquish yourself a little bit. And it’s not that you don’t, that you do it.

You don’t do it deliberately. It’s not intentional. It’s just that you want to be the very best mum that you can be. And you recognize that you have these gorgeous little people that you’ve made and you want to give them the best start. And you really want to enjoy it yourself. And you want there to be magic. And magic takes a lot of effort, a lot of effort, you know, just planning a day out, you know.

Keeley (25:32)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Victoria (25:38)
you’re the one thinking, okay, you know where everyone’s up to and what they’ll eat and what they won’t. You know what’s likely to, know, you can eat out or you’re preparing snacks. You’ve got all their drinks. You’ve got all their, know, do you need sun cream or do you need an umbrella or do you need, and what’s in the wash and what isn’t in the wash and, you know, can, are there wellies still at nursery or can you, like everything. There’s so much mental load in that. And you are giving all of your brain power.

Keeley (25:44)
Mm-hmm.

Victoria (26:06)
to trying to make sure that your children have the best childhood. And that’s a noble pursuit. And that’s really, really important. And we’re all trying to ensure that our kids grow up feeling secure and loved and that they can look back on those years and just, like you say, they’re not remembering the mess.

They’re just remembering the cuddles. They’re remembering, they’re basically just remembering. I mean, when you look back to your own childhood, you don’t remember specifics as much as you just remember the feeling of it. And that takes a lot of work. And a lot of that work is mum. You know, Christmas, it’s when you look, when I didn’t realize until I became a mum myself and I look back at Christmas now and I make so much effort at Christmas. my God, it’s ridiculous. And my partner’s like.

Keeley (26:42)
Yeah.

the air.

Victoria (27:00)
just get stressed by my aura at the end of November. Like, right, I have to now dedicate several weeks to making magic happen. And I really appreciate that that whole feeling that I have about Christmas is basically a feeling of appreciation for my mum because she made that feel so special and it wasn’t in any way elaborate, but it was just in the small details and just in the feeling of it.

Keeley (27:02)
Yeah. ⁓

Yeah.

Victoria (27:30)
And we were at the center of the world for that period of time. And it was so lovely. And I’m so grateful to her now because I realized my dad had very little to do with that. He was there. I remember he was there and he obviously helped out at the time, but like in terms of preparation, mental load, decorations, presents, everything, that was all mum. And I think this is all the unseen labor of motherhood. And I think if you…

Keeley (27:32)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Victoria (27:58)
give all your brain power to that. Actually what you’re saying, if I can kind of twist your words, hopefully in a nice way, the things that you love about being a mum are kind of the things that you love about yourself. It’s just that you had taken that energy and applied it to that particular role and all of that kind of effort, all of that.

the kind of magic that you’re trying to inject in the activities that you’re planning for your kids in the Pikachu sandwiches. Like that’s all coming from you and that’s you wanting to create this beautiful childhood for your kids. And actually you could take that now that you’ve got a little bit more time and put that into something else which creates joy for other people in a new way, gives you an outlet.

and also can make a business and bring in some money. It’s quite lovely, isn’t it?

Keeley (29:02)
Yeah. Yeah.

I guess I’ve never kind of thought of it like that before, but yeah, I see what you mean. is, yeah, I think that, yeah, and the things that I’ve tried to do with my business and lean into, I guess, is trying to make the most of my strengths, I guess, that I feel are my strengths.

But yeah, it’s interesting that what you said as well about kind of your childhood and Christmas and stuff. me and my husband, we always said when the kids were little that we need to make the most of it because we were always on the countdown. Like my son, we’ve like got 16 summers before he’s not interested. And every summer we’ve kind of like been on the countdown and he’s 13 now.

Victoria (29:55)
couldn’t do that,

I’d too sad. my God. ⁓

Keeley (29:56)
or it is, but it is sad,

but it has really forced us to kind of like make the most of stuff and because they’re small for a short time. And I think that was another reason why it was easy to kind of concentrate on the mumming because in the back of my head, I was always thinking there’s time for me later, there’s time for me later. And then we got to the point where there was time for me and that’s when I’ve been able to start the business up. And because my husband,

Victoria (30:03)
Yeah.

Keeley (30:25)
was working away, finding a job and kind of going that traditional way of the kids starting school and then start back at work, it just wasn’t an option for me. We needed, with him being away and his work patterns being so unpredictable and last minute, we needed someone like steady and stable for the kids ⁓ in case they needed anything. I mean, there’s always something, isn’t there? Like the amount of bumped

heads and split heads. It’s a good job we live so close to the hospital because the amount of times I’ve been out walking the dog and it’s the school and they’re like, I’ll pick up and they’re like, don’t panic about this one, but they haven’t stopped bleeding for half an hour. They’ll need the hospital and all this kind of stuff. So I’m like, all right, off we go. But yeah, like they kind of, we just always wanted, if the option was him working away, the sacrifice had to be that someone else needed to be there regardless.

Victoria (30:55)
You

⁓ god. ⁓

Keeley (31:20)
And I was more than happy to do that. ⁓ But yeah, it did mean that going back to work in a traditional capacity probably wasn’t gonna work long term or especially when they were little. So that was another reason why the business kind of, I saw an opportunity there ⁓ and it just meant that I could create a job around the kids and get like, I mean, you’re never gonna get a balance but you can kind of integrate the two.

a lot more easily than if you’re employed by someone else. And I see my friends that ⁓ are working and there’s so much more stress and difficulty. Even city things, if you forget, if your work gives you different bank holidays and different days off to the schools and you forget that they’re not in synergy and then suddenly you get an email from the school reminding you, the kids aren’t in on Monday and there’s that mad panic of, gosh, what are we gonna do? Yeah. ⁓

Victoria (32:15)
Yeah, what do we do with them? Yeah.

Keeley (32:18)
But the way that I’ve been able to build my business is that I can have it ticking over through the school holidays. And yeah, it’s a juggle. I have to be super organized. And there’s lots of stuff that I feel like I’ve got all the plates spinning and I’m kind of like running from one to the other. But it is possible and I can do it. And it is getting easier the longer that I run the business and the more systems that I put in place, the easier that becomes.

Victoria (32:34)
Yeah.

Keeley (32:45)
to the point where I think I went into the studio once or twice. I was just packaging orders ⁓ over the summer holidays. I took the whole summer holidays off with the kids, ⁓ other than like fulfilling orders. ⁓ And I can do that again. We’ve got the October holidays coming up in Scotland where they have two weeks off. And all I need to do is make sure that I’ve got enough ⁓ jewelry made basically and enough of my kind of systems ticking over.

that again, all I need to do is just ship orders, which is, you know, it doesn’t take forever. It’s a simple job. My daughter can come in. She likes wrapping the Dory up and stuff. ⁓ So yeah, I think that’s been a game changer in terms of being able to juggle the business and the mum’s stuff together is just kind of setting it up that way. And I’m so grateful for being able to do that.

Victoria (33:38)
You’ve been a very consistent presence in their life up until the point when you started your business and you’ve enjoyed it and they’ve obviously benefited from it. So to be able to create a business which allows you to continue doing that is quite something, I think. And I mean, I’m only just starting to grapple with this school thing. And just this, mean.

Keeley (33:55)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Victoria (34:08)
the level of organization that’s required to deal with all the holidays is something else and it’s something I’m going to have to get my head around. But I think the fact that you’ve got a business in place that is set up around that and you communicate in all your social media and everything that you put out that you are a mum. And so there is that expectation that, okay, if you’re…

if your order takes a little bit longer in the summer holidays, it’s going to take a little bit longer in the summer holidays. And by incorporating that into your brand to a certain extent, you kind of give yourself grace by setting those expectations. So tell me what was the inspiration behind the specific brand, the kind of the moon and dusk name, the celestial inspiration, where did all of that come from?

Keeley (35:00)
Yeah.

It kind of, so the name came from, just, had to, was registering the business and I needed to come up with a name for it. And I was working on a piece of jewelry and it was basically, it was a moon. And I had to do all of it to begin with, I had to do all of my making and everything like in the evenings once the kids had gone down. ⁓

just like, cause it was the summer holidays and stuff when I kind of started the business properly. So yeah, the sun was coming down, the light was pouring in through the window. So I was like, right, moon, dusk, that’s that. So the name behind the business, done. Cause I was just, was like, I’m so indecisive. And then so I kind of, came up with the name and then as my kind of jewelry making skills progressed and as…

Victoria (35:40)
Done.

Keeley (35:56)
my kind of style progressed, I was really leaning into that celestial symbology. So then I started kind of thinking, well, why is it that I’m so drawn to that? And it’s just, I felt that you have so much in the celestial symbology, there’s so much that I just related to as a mom. And the main thing that you’ll see in a lot of my jewelry is like moon phases or like links back to moon. And

That is literally just like the moon every month it goes through phases. Like sometimes it’s kind of like weaker and waning. Other times it’s like bright and it’s waxing. it just made me think about all these phases of motherhood and just in life in general, but specifically motherhood that we go through. And sometimes like they’re harder, sometimes they’re lighter, but it doesn’t matter which one of those phases you’re in.

you’re still whole. So like the moon, like it doesn’t disappear just because it’s a new moon and you can’t see it, it’s still there. You know, the light just isn’t shining on it at that time. So I thought that was a really good kind of core symbology because sometimes we do feel a bit invisible as mums and it doesn’t mean that, you know, we’re not there, we’re not in there, we still are. And we’re just waiting for that kind of light to come back. So yeah, that was kind of why

I’m still really drawn to celestial symbology and as well, that’s why my jewelry, feel like I’m making it when I’m making the pieces. I’m making it for the girls out there and the women out there that are feeling a bit lost. And sometimes it’s just the little things that make such a big difference. I speak to people all the time about it. Like some people, they have to wear a spritz of perfume and then through the day they’ll get a waft of it and it’ll just like, you know, they’ll really feel like themselves or.

Victoria (37:36)
Yeah.

Keeley (37:46)
they’ll put a cowl through their hair or they’ll do their nails. And I know that’s all superficial kind of things, but sometimes you need these little anchor points to just remind you that you’re in there. And it might be a day where you’re wearing leggings and a t-shirt, because you’re going to the soft play with the kids, your hair’s up in a messy bun, but you’ve stuck your favorite hoops in, and that makes you feel like you’ve put an effort in. It makes you feel like you. Whereas if you didn’t have them in, you would just feel a bit like blah. So yeah, the jewelry that I make, at the back of my mind, I’m always thinking of…

Victoria (38:12)
You

Keeley (38:16)
of the girls that are sitting there feeling a little bit lost and just trying to find ways to connect them back to themselves and remind them that they’re still in there, like, hang in there, you’re doing a good job.

Victoria (38:29)
I love that. And you’re so right about these little cues. definitely, mean, during the early stages of motherhood and I became a mum, my children, well, my eldest, especially as a COVID baby. So I became pregnant with her pretty much, I think probably the night that Boris sent us all into lockdown, TMI. So she was born just before the third lockdown. So I was pregnant throughout the first and second and she was born third.

Keeley (38:30)
He

Mm-hmm.

Victoria (38:59)
just before the third. So that early stage, I was pretty much in this house by myself. As I said, my partner was called away for a chunk of time and it was very much like leggings and jumpers and this was a bit of a building site at the time. So I was kind of just doing a bit of painting here and there and everything. There was no reason to glam up. There was no reason to even wear any of my nice clothes. Like COVID just really just had us all in our worst clothes the whole time.

Keeley (39:23)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Victoria (39:28)
In some ways it was good because it made me realize actually you don’t need to be buying clothes all the time. It’s just not necessary. But there is a period where you kind of emerge from that early haze of motherhood. And I remember I interviewed a really, really cool girl, Mel, earlier on in this podcast. And she talked about getting your pink back.

And it’s this whole thing of like, rediscovering yourself as an independent woman separate from this mom role. And your kids don’t care what you look like. And that is a gorgeous thing in itself. They just love you. And you could be having the worst hair day in the world that they don’t even notice. I mean, my eldest now would point that out to me.

Keeley (40:10)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Victoria (40:22)
But babies don’t care, they just want you, they just think you’re the best thing in the world. And that is just the most beautiful thing about motherhood is that you can just be so loved for yourself without bringing any glamour to the table whatsoever. It’s like, yeah, it’s an amazing thing, but you can in some ways lose, that is part of the loss of identity because…

you know, I didn’t even know what clothes to put on after COVID. I didn’t know what I liked. My body had changed to a certain degree and shape even. Like, I just, and I didn’t, if I went to a shop, like I didn’t even know. Like it’s all part of this kind of like haze. Like the old stuff doesn’t seem to quite fit in all sorts of ways. Like physically, practically, it might not actually fit, but also it just doesn’t feel right. And you kind of have to find…

Keeley (40:53)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah

Mm-hmm.

Victoria (41:19)
a whole new version of you in terms of what you like. And this idea of like having style, having a style of what you wear, I think you just default to, and like you say, just putting the hoops in or just putting a ring on or just spritzing yourself. It’s just a little thing to show that you, like you say, so eloquently that you’re in there, like, and you’re further ahead than me in the maternal journey.

Keeley (41:42)
Mm-hmm.

Victoria (41:49)
and you have got a bit more space now and your children are that more independent and that that time will come. And it’s okay actually to just let it go for now because the most important thing is that your kids feel safe and happy. And yeah, it’s just that slowly but surely rediscovering yourself.

and it might be just a piece of jewelry that makes you feel like you’re worth making the effort for as well, because a lot of it is about, like you say, you put all your brain power into your role as mum and your rest and your hobbies and your enjoyment, you’re listening to your song in the car, not to the Frozen soundtrack or whatever it might be. It all goes, it all goes because you just, get, you’re the first person to be set aside.

Keeley (42:20)
Yeah.

Victoria (42:45)
Even for your partner, know, they’re going out, your husband, they’re going out working, they’re coming in, they’re tired. You you factor them in as well. You know, that in some way you have to take care of them too. And especially if you’re on maternity or if you’re in the house and you’re not working, you feel like that’s part of the deal. You you might not even openly talk about it, but that is part of the deal that you’re supposed to make sure the house is in good order because you’re not at work. And that plays into all sorts of like traditional gender stereotypical roles, but.

more than anything, it’s just a time thing. You’re in the house, so that can be your thing and they’re going out to work. And I think actually just these small messages that you send to yourself, like, I’m worth it, even washing your hair, these little things, it starts with that, just making sure your hair’s washed. And as you’re coming out of maternity and then you graduate to the piece of jewelry when you go to the soft play.

Keeley (43:31)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Victoria (43:42)
And then slowly but surely you’re taking out an actual handbag that isn’t filled with all your child’s junk. And you can slowly, I know. I love it. I don’t even take a bag anymore. I literally, I just feel so light. If I go out, I just put like, I have something with pockets. I’m like lip balm, keys, phone, done. I don’t, I just don’t. I just like, I just feel light. I glide.

Keeley (43:48)
That’s a big step, that’s a big step. ⁓

Do not. Yeah.

I still can’t. Yeah,

Eglade, I can’t do that. So when the kids were little, had the biggest change. It was like a changing suitcase, but I always had everything and I had enough for everyone. So I got like known. If anyone ever needed anything, before they looked in their own bag, they would just look at me and I’d be like, all right. So yeah, I’ve not got out of that. And in my bag, to be fair, there’s less of the kids stuff.

Victoria (44:14)
Hahaha

Ask Keely.

Keeley (44:30)
I’ve managed to draw the line. I don’t take crayons and pads of paper anymore in my bag because they’ve got their phones. they’ve like, if we’re going out somewhere and they need something to do, they usually just kind of go on their phone. ⁓ So I’ve managed to kind of like step away from that, but I’ve still got in my head, I need to have plasters. I need to have antiseptic. I need to have hand-sanit. I need to have all these things that I can’t, I cannot leave it. Yeah.

Victoria (44:35)
Hahaha

no, don’t get me wrong. Yeah. If I’m going out with the kids, yeah, no, I’m going out with the kids.

I’ll have all that stuff. I’m talking about going out by myself. Like, if I go out by myself, I’m like, do you? God. Okay. To be fair, my mum does. My mum is still, still that lady who we go to everything. So if the kids fall over, I’m likely to have been so disorganized to have not replenished the plaster stock and she’s always you go to lady. So yeah, she still does that. But yeah, it’s, it’s just that kind of

Keeley (44:58)
no, I still take it just in case.

Yeah.

bag. ⁓

Beer.

Victoria (45:19)
Yeah, the effort and kind of sending yourself messages and jewellery is a great way to do that. It’s just…

Keeley (45:25)
Yeah, yeah, it’s a simple

easy way. I think sometimes too, ⁓ you have to train. It’s not as easy as just thinking like, ⁓ I’m neglecting myself a bit here, I need to do a bit more self care. You’re so kind of automatically, it’s just a reflex to kind of put yourself last. even stupid things that if you’re going to a restaurant, I still sometimes will

order if my kid is trying something new and I’m like, yay, well done for trying something new. I will order something that I know that they do like so that inevitably when they don’t like the something new, we can just switch over. But yeah, yeah, but you you kind of it’s just a reflex to put yourself below everyone else. And I think when it becomes a reflex, that’s when you start ⁓ psychologically or maybe like, which call it subconsciously, feeling like you’re worth a little bit less. So

Victoria (46:02)
They have something to eat, yeah.

Keeley (46:21)
you then again it just it’s like a cycle and then you will put everyone else above you and then your kind of self-esteem starts to get and your confidence gets a bit worn down at that point. So doing something like taking the time even though you’re exhausted and you’ve got decision fatigue and you don’t want to have to even think about like oh what am wearing today I don’t know I’ll just wear the black stuff because it’s easy. Just taking the time out to like fling on a necklace or a pair of earrings or something like that you’re

you’re taking that step up, you’re bringing your own importance up a little bit, you’re feeling a bit more considered like you thought about yourself a little bit at that point in the morning and you’re just gradually working your way back up the list and I’m not saying that you should be at the top and like you’re, you know, there should be more of a balance to it and you need to kind of like, rather than sitting happily at the bottom and just everything else getting prioritized above you even when it’s like tumble drying over tea, like just doing the things

like drinking the tea and leaving the tumble drying or putting the jewellery on in the morning, taking time to do that. Just taking these little steps to work your way up the list and not be sitting right at the bottom. Like it makes a huge difference without even realising it.

Victoria (47:33)
Yeah, do you feel like it’s kind of habit building? Do feel like it’s like a muscle that you have to kind of practice and train?

Keeley (47:36)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which it sounds

so daft, really, doesn’t it? Because it’s something that should come really naturally. But I think, ⁓ yeah, it’s definitely, you need to form those new habits and you need to kind of, like you say, work the muscle and get used to doing it because you do, you forget, you just crash through your day.

trying to get like the morning everyone out the house, everyone to school, everyone on time. And before you know it, like, you know, are you wearing shoes? Are there slippers that you running around the house in? Like, did you remember to sort them over? You’re kind of in that situation.

Victoria (48:16)
Yeah.

Yeah, and there’s a mental health, a mental health implication there, I think, because if you, yeah, mean, it’s, you know, historically, my grandparents would have just called it standards, you know, and it sounds very harsh in a way and quite archaic, but there’s something about taking pride.

in those small things that actually does help you with your confidence and your sense of self that you’re worth it. And it’s a kind of discipline, you know, and it’s also, you know, it just, you go to the school gates and if you’ve made that little bit of extra effort, you don’t feel mortified if someone tries to talk to you.

Keeley (48:53)
Yeah.

Victoria (49:11)
you know, you’re happy to be engaging with society because you feel like, okay, well, I don’t know my best, but I definitely don’t know my worst. And then you can relationship build. But I think if you just sort of dash out of the house and just can’t wait to get back in, then your kind of, your head’s perhaps gonna suffer from that because that, you’re kind of almost, you know, you’re not doing it deliberately, but you can kind of force an isolation there.

Keeley (49:14)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Victoria (49:40)
because you don’t feel confident enough to engage, you just kind of, because you haven’t made that little bit of effort. I think that’s interesting. Go on.

Keeley (49:42)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it is.

it’s even, so when I’m doing events and stuff with ⁓ moon and dusk, there’ll be times that people come and they’ll like try on a necklace, for example. That’s the one that you see the biggest difference with. And I’ll hold the mirror up and they just automatically, the way, if they haven’t been wearing jewelry before, the way they hold themselves is so different. And like their shoulders are back, they’ll stand up straight. And it’s almost like,

Victoria (50:07)
Yeah.

Keeley (50:15)
where they were kind of like taking up less space before they’re kind of like opening themselves up. And like you say, like you might be inspired or like you might feel confident enough to have that conversation to make that connection. And yeah, to spark something up and then you know what it’s like sometimes like you can go on the school run in a big haze of a rush and get back and you’re still in that hazy headspace.

or you can have an atta at the school gates, have a bit of a giggle about like, I don’t know, whatever the reading book was, there was like some kind of double entendre that the kids missed and you’re laughing about it with the other parents. And like, kind of, it changes your whole like mood for the day or it has the power to do that. And it can be something so simple before you walk out the door that has these ripples throughout the day and can have a huge impact. ⁓

Yeah, on just everything, which is, it’s funny that we can underestimate these little things so much and not really appreciate the power that they have to make us kind of feel connected to ourselves, to other people, to everything.

Victoria (51:24)
Yeah, definitely. So how do you think starting your business, finding this craft that you’re able to pursue, that you really enjoy, if you reflect back, if you hadn’t found it, like how has that changed your life?

Keeley (51:45)
gosh. I’d say it’s had a huge, huge impact because in order to do the business, ⁓ I’ve had to work on things like self-confidence, self-esteem, like all of these kind of things because it’s all very well having a jewelry business, but if I’m sitting there not telling anyone about it or not posting on social media or, you know, no one’s gonna find it, no one’s gonna, you know, know that I exist.

So from going like before I had the business, like really low self-confidence, really low self-esteem, ⁓ having to work through all of that to get in a position where I can kind of market the business. Cause when you start your own business, you’re everything, aren’t you? You have to deal with the marketing and all the things for it. So I think it’s changed me just for that in terms of confidence.

Victoria (52:30)
Yeah, yeah.

Keeley (52:40)
But also it’s helped me to connect with a lot of people. I’ve met a lot of people. I’ve got friendships out of it that I, know, really, really beautiful friendships and support that I never had before. So again, it’s that whole idea of Ripple’s like one thing. starting the business, it’s helped me with my confidence. It’s helped me have a network, find a community. ⁓ I think it’s helped me be a better listener and understand things a bit more because I’m kind of looking out a lot more than

looking in if that makes sense rather than like my situation I’m looking a lot more of like the impact things have on other people as well so yeah I would I don’t know where I would be if I hadn’t started the business but I think it’s forced me it has literally shoved me so far out of every single comfort zone I’ve ever had

Like my world has had to expand to kind of like absorb all of that. So yeah, I think it’s kind of, it’s had an effect in loads of different ways, but yeah. It’s kind of personal growth at the same time as growing a business. I think the two have gone hand in hand for me.

Victoria (53:54)
think that’s so often the case. like you say, I mean, marketing yourself is enormous and it’s in this age of social media, it can be completely terrifying, you know, to hold up a phone to your face and start talking about something that you’ve made and asking other people if they like it, like literally if they like it, like it’s just, that’s really confronting, daunting, if you’ve never done that sort of thing before, actually terrifying. I think it’s interesting what you said.

Keeley (53:56)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Victoria (54:24)
about confidence and self-esteem because it’s just these two things can exist at the same time. I imagine that you felt absolutely, you couldn’t have been more confident as a mum. know, where your children are concerned, you have no issues with self-confidence. You know what you’re doing. You’ve really devoted yourself to it. You understand them. You’ve got a really close relationship. You know every need and want at that moment in time every day. Yet,

Keeley (54:51)
Mm-hmm.

Victoria (54:53)
when you go out into the wider world, that confidence isn’t there. And that can be quite a strange conflict.

Keeley (54:58)
Yeah.

Mm hmm.

Yeah, it’s, it’s sorry. Yeah, it’s it’s really strange because it that was exactly it like see, especially with when my son was born. And he was so regimented, he was in such a routine just naturally, I knew what he wanted before he gave any signals for it. So I could preempt everything. So he just literally never cried as a baby or anything like it was it was

Victoria (55:07)
What would you say to… Go on. It’s all right.

Amazing. Yeah.

Keeley (55:31)
just we had this kind of like sink. mean,

my daughter was different. Like she cried all the time and I had no idea why, but like it was, it was one, like you say like I was, I was confident. So I could confidently say to people, right, he’s gonna need a nap within the next 10 minutes. Otherwise he’s gonna scream for four hours. So we have to get him down for a nap. And I would, if people are like, he’ll be fine. I’d be like, no, like, and I would have the confidence to kind of stand up for myself and even.

Victoria (55:39)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Keeley (56:00)
at

school and stuff, if one of the kids was going through something, I would never normally say buty-to-aguse. If someone, like, I don’t know, if I said something and someone shot me down for it, I would stay down and I’d be like, okay, and I would just sit with that. But when it came to the kids, if I was advocating for them, and like I said, right, this is unacceptable, this is what happens, and someone says, well, get over it. When it was the kids, be like, no, it’s unacceptable, there’s no getting over it, you need to do something about it. Whereas the thought of doing that,

in like, for me personally, no, that wouldn’t happen. I would not ever like do anything like that. ⁓ But the thing that that exact situation, being able to do that as a mum for your kids is proof to you that you can do it out in the big wide world. So even stupid things, right? So like sports day, having to do the parents race. No, thank you, not involved, don’t want to do it.

Victoria (56:33)
Yeah.

Hahaha.

Keeley (56:56)
The teachers say

you’re doing the parents race. So you’re like, good. So you feel horrendously uncomfortable. You feel like everyone’s watching you. You feel, can’t do this. Like, I’m not gonna do it. This is horrendous. But you do it anyway. Like you feel the fear, you do it anyway, even though you feel like everyone’s watching you. Like you manage doing it in the end. You can do that in real life as well because you’ve proven to yourself you can do it for the kids. You just need the motivator to be as strong as like.

the kid motivator. So as much as like it is a really weird situation to be in to like be able to stand up for your kids and speak out and be confident all these ways, but then for yourself not show up for yourself in that same way, that’s a weird situation to be in, but you have proof that you can do it. So you just, it’s a mindset thing I think as well. Like, so like the visibility on Instagram, for example, like,

Victoria (57:46)
Yeah, totally.

Keeley (57:51)
I mean, I was at the point where I wouldn’t even FaceTime my parents. Like I would have the camera facing away from me. I couldn’t do any zoom calls through ⁓ lockdown. You everyone was doing zoom calls for everything. I hated being on the camera. ⁓ But I knew I could do it because I had to do it for school, like appointments for parents’ evenings and stuff. Like I had proof to myself that I could do it. I just had to apply that to like the business and to real life. So then I had to telling myself like, you know, you can do this, like you have to show up on Instagram and

Like you say, like back to that muscle kind of thing, you flex the muscle, you do it, it becomes less scary. Your comfort zone expands and kind of absorbs all of that. And it’s just something you work on and the confidence and everything builds from there.

Victoria (58:38)
So what would you say to somebody who is a mum with young kids and does perhaps feel a little bit lost in terms of their own identity? And they’ve been at the bottom of the pile for a really long time. And they’ve been kind of okay there, but for whatever reason, it’s starting to feel not okay.

Keeley (58:46)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Victoria (59:07)
What would you say?

Keeley (59:10)
I would say ⁓ don’t try and start too big. Start with the smallest little steps that you can. You need to take the little steps and before you know it, all of those are gonna add up. So sitting there and having an afternoon off to go on a spa day is probably gonna feel like a bit too much and you might not even end up enjoying it because you’re there feeling guilty because you’ve left the kids or.

whatever, start with the little things. So like, instead of listening to the kids music all the time, like just take turns on who’s playing songs. Like that’s what we did. We would take turns. So everyone got a turn of a song and then you do it that way. And it’s silly. Like music is such a big thing. can just totally take you back to a moment and remind you who you are. Like, I used to love this song. And you know, it gets you in that kind of like head space.

Victoria (1:00:02)
Yeah, yeah, totally.

Keeley (1:00:07)
So yeah, start with the little things, take turns with the songs, literally like, I mean, obviously I’m always gonna go back to jewelry because that’s my thing, but like stick in the earrings or if you can’t do the earrings or the necklace or whatever because of the kids, know, find a way, even if like when they go to bed, you put your earrings in or something like that, just the little things so that you can start feeling reconnected with yourself so that you’re kind of, you’re adding the blocks one by one.

and then kind of go from there. I think that would probably be my advice. And then you can work up. I literally, so I went from a few years ago, ⁓ like never, could literally count on one hand the amount of times I’d been away for more than a few hours from the kids. Like them being at school was the longest we would ever be apart from each other. And then like literally two weeks ago, I went on a trip to Canada just by myself without the kids or the hubby or anyone.

And would never have thought I could possibly do that, but I’ve kind of worked up to it gradually to the point where I didn’t, I felt a little bit guilty, not guilty. I did feel a bit bad, but I was speaking to them every day, but it wasn’t that kind of crippling guilt where you couldn’t enjoy what you were doing. So yeah, if I can work up from being 24-7 mum for a decade without a break to being able to then like.

Victoria (1:01:18)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Keeley (1:01:28)
feel alright leaving them long enough to take that amount of time and to be that far away not just to be able to like, nip back if they needed something. Yeah, if I can do that then, you know, other people can do it. So yeah, just start small and who knows you might end up in Canada for a week in a few years’ time.

Victoria (1:01:49)
Yeah, I love that. Yeah, you’re so right about music though. It’s an interesting one because that’s something that you can completely lose touch with. And I was like you, I I get in the car and it’s just what do the children want to listen to? And it’s they argue between, there’s two girls that they argue between which Disney princess of the moment we’re going to listen to and they take turns. And I had a solo car journey, which was like heaven this summer, which was quite long. So five hours from London to Cornwall to catch up with my

Keeley (1:01:52)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Victoria (1:02:18)
parents who had the children for a family holiday. And I was like defaulting to podcasts and whatever thinking, right, I’ve got to learn something that makes me a better business person or learn something. And actually it was quite early in the morning and I just didn’t. And I put on a kind of Spotify or it was an Apple podcast, Apple music, like 90s, naughties, random playlist.

Keeley (1:02:24)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Victoria (1:02:44)
And

I was like, I’ll just listen to a few songs and like warm me up for the day. And I spent five hours just going back in time. And that was so cathartic. And over the holiday that we were about to go on, it was my 40th birthday. And there’s something about obviously these big milestone birthdays. And I was like, God, what have I even done? Like, you know, just feeling like, it doesn’t feel like 40 years have passed. And I’ve done a lot of stuff. Like, it’s just that.

Keeley (1:02:51)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Ha

Mm-hmm.

Victoria (1:03:13)
kind of panic at this kind of halfway mark. And that exercise, I’m calling it sounds very like, I don’t know, daft court and exercise, but that five hour stint in the car by myself listening to all this stuff that I listened to. And as you say, it takes you back to what you were doing in that moment. So it’s everything from like senior school to uni and beyond, like all of the nineties and noughties. And I was just conjuring up all these memories and I was like.

Keeley (1:03:15)
Yeah.

Victoria (1:03:42)
It was a real exercise, again, exercise, in just reconnecting with myself. Like, God, remember that trip, and remember that weekend. And it was the most cathartic thing. And no, I still don’t know what is going on in current music. But it reminded me that I was once young, and I did know what was number one in the charts for that whole period of my life. And it just was really…

Keeley (1:04:03)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Victoria (1:04:11)
kind of self-indulgent in the best way. It just was a really lovely trip down memory lane, no one else to bother me, just in the car by myself. And that was really positive. And I turned up on that holiday in just such a great mood. And again, ready to parent, like 24 seven for 10 days. Like these little things that you do, it’s all part of the same, that same kind of, I don’t know, the same messaging that, you know, you are a worthwhile independent human.

Keeley (1:04:13)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Victoria (1:04:41)
And if you can give yourself what you need to build that confidence again, after perhaps losing it a little bit in motherhood, then you can still go on and do all sorts of fantastic things like you’re doing with your jewelry business. And I have one last question for you before I let you go. So what would you say now? How old are your children? Tell me.

Keeley (1:05:04)
13 and 11.

Victoria (1:05:07)
Okay, so you’ve done this. So what would you say now as your eight year old self? Looking back.

Keeley (1:05:18)
Eight years old, right, trying to think what I was like when, do you know what? I think probably just hang in there because I wouldn’t want to change anything because I’m a big believer in things sometimes have to happen the way that they happen for you to be at the place you are. And as much as like sometimes great things happen, sometimes you struggle with things that are thrown at you.

you have to go through that and you always learn a lesson as a result of that. yeah, just probably hang in there would be the advice. So yeah, I know that good things are coming.

Victoria (1:06:05)
Yeah, I think there’s definitely something about not wanting to influence that little person. And I’m starting to feel that that’s the sign that you’ve had a really good life. And actually everything, you you have challenges and you overcome them. And yeah, you wouldn’t want to change anything and that’s no bad thing. That’s pretty cool.

Keeley (1:06:15)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Victoria (1:06:35)
So tell me where can everybody find you if they want to check out your jewelry, go and follow you on social media where you actually do loads of reels and loads of awesome stuff to camera. Where should they track you down?

Keeley (1:06:45)
Yeah

So probably the best place is Instagram because I, yeah, you’ll get to see all behind the scenes, what happens in my studio, on events. ⁓ I just kind of document quite a lot of stuff on there and you’ll get all the nice sparkly stuff too. ⁓ So that’s probably the best place to go if you want to connect. Just send me a DM as well. love getting the DMs. If you want to like chat or anything, that’s fine.

And if you want like a more traditional, like I just want to see the jewelry, Keely, I’ve had enough of you talking, go to the website. It’s www.moonanddusk.co.uk. And yeah, you’ll be able to see all of the sparkles on there too.

Victoria (1:07:33)
Awesome. Awesome. Thank you so much for your time, Keely. I really appreciate it. It’s been lovely hearing your story.

Keeley (1:07:39)
Thanks so much for having me on.

Victoria (1:07:42)
Thank you.