Episode 15: Showing Up Authentically In Every Season of Business With Vicki Knights

Hello and welcome to the Mum Means Business podcast, where we shine a light on inspiring women who have one thing in common. When they’re not managing tantrums, homework, P.E. kits and play dates, they are busting their gut to create something from nothing, to turn their passion into a thriving business and build a better life for themselves and their families. We dig into what motivates devoted mothers to pursue entrepreneurship and how they integrate their work and family life.

I’m Victoria Phipps, your host, and if you’re an ambitious mum in need of some solidarity whilst navigating the messy middle of making your big dream a reality, then stick around. This is for you.

NOTE: This is the transcript from the original recording, rather than the edited episode so timings may vary.

Victoria (00:01)
My guest today left a corporate career in London to start a family photography business when she became a mom for the first time. That career has shifted and evolved over the past 17 years in line with her family life and her own interests. Vicky Knight is now a personal branding photographer, a visibility strategist, a positive psychology practitioner, and host of the number one marketing podcast showing up.

A strong advocate of gentle marketing, Vicky advocates growing at your own pace in order to build a business that aligns with your values, leaving you feeling fulfilled rather than overwhelmed. Through her beautiful portrait photography, inspires and empowers business women to take… I’m going to do that one again. Through her beautiful portrait photography, she empowers business women to tell their story online.

And through her podcast, she encourages them to take baby steps into the frame to consistently promote their product or service in a way that feels good to them. As a fellow photographer, I’ve watched Vicky’s career evolve from afar and been very inspired by her journey, but we’ve never met. So this is the first time I’ve been able to pick her brains on all things photography, business, and motherhood. And I’m exceedingly excited. So Vicky, welcome to the Mummy’s Business Podcast.

Vicki (01:14)
Thank you, was, I might just take that and put that on my website, that was perfect. Absolutely.

Victoria (01:18)
You’re not the first person to say that. I think I might start a sideline and just bio crafting. So

you’ve been in business for a very long time. You recently interviewed your son on the podcast, which I absolutely loved. And we might touch on that later on, but let’s go back to the beginning. So what made you do it?

Vicki (01:38)
So what made me do it? So like you said, I was in a corporate career, although it didn’t feel very corporate. I was working in media, I was working for a group of radio stations like Kiss.

So it was really good fun. I loved my job in my twenties. So I was 29 when I got pregnant. And so, yeah, at the time I was head of sponsorship. I was managing kind of a team of about 10 people or so. I was traveling, absolutely loving life. And I remember before I left someone saying, if anyone’s going to come back to work, it’ll be you, Vicky. Because I was just so driven. You know, I was always, I was ambitious. I was driven. I loved what I did. You know, I always had a smile on my face in the morning. I never dreaded

and that was the plan. I thought I will go back, I’ll have kids go back, I can travel in and then…

Yeah, just, I had Harrison, he was quite clingy baby like me saying that, but he really wouldn’t go, I’d be one of those mums that would go to the gym, try and have an hour to myself, and over the tannoy they’d be like, could Vicky Knight please come back to the creche, because he’d just be crying. Yeah, exactly, because he’d just be going away, I just wanted an hour. And he’d be crying his eyes out, and as soon as he saw me he was okay, so.

Victoria (02:37)
Vicky likes to go home.

Vicki (02:48)
this whole plan of thinking, it would be totally fine. I was thinking, I don’t think I can leave him. And then the catalyst was, I really wanted to go back three days because I started thinking maybe I could build something on the side, but it was four days or nothing. And we all know.

Victoria (02:48)
God bless you.

Vicki (03:05)
if you’re doing four days, really I’d be doing five days, but getting paid for four, but just at home on my email doing five days, because no one else was going to take the slack for that other day. So during my maternity leave was when I was like, I really, really want to do something else. What could I do? And actually I have to credit my husband for saying, really what came first was the business, not the photography. I know for photographers, especially, quite often it’s the other way around, isn’t it? They desperately want to be a photographer, but actually the business side of things, not so keen on.

Victoria (03:30)
Mm. Yeah.

Vicki (03:35)
Whereas I knew I wanted to start a business so could be around my baby but didn’t know what in. And my husband said, could you not, you take so many photos of Harrison, I loved photography, could you not do that? And I was like, oh, this was back in 2008. I know you’ve done photography for a long time, so you probably remember what things were like back then.

Victoria (03:51)
Yeah, I was probably a year behind

you. Yeah.

Vicki (03:54)
Yeah, and

I said, don’t, it doesn’t appeal to me to do studio photography because that’s all I could see, that’s all people were doing. And he said, but can’t you just take photos like in the woods and everything like you photograph Harrison? And I said, I don’t think that’s a thing. But then I started Googling and I looked at the States and in the States I realised lifestyle photography was a real thing.

Victoria (04:00)
Hmm.

Vicki (04:16)
So I was like, ⁓ I wonder if I could do this. I went to a local studio to do a little bit of market research and had a really bad experience. ⁓ Just me and my son, having photos taken, thought I could do this much better than they are currently offering. So yeah, I made after nine months on maternity leave.

Victoria (04:31)
Yeah.

Vicki (04:37)
I was just like, right, I’m not going to go back. I don’t think this is going to work to do this on the side. I’m just going to have my notice in and go for it. And actually when I worked the sums out, and I’m sure so many mums that listening have done the same thing, I worked the maths out of what I was earning, taking away train fee four days a week, childcare fees, which are extortionate, and worked out what I would be earning. And I thought, right, that’s what I need to make.

Victoria (04:56)
Yep. Yep.

Vicki (05:00)
think it’s doable. I did all the sums, worked out all my costs, and I did. In that first year, I made what I would have made if I’d have gone back to work without all of the childcare costs. it was, yeah, was, I mean, I think back then it was, you know, I literally put my website up and I got an inquiry the next day and I always say to people, know, yeah, I know it’s not as easy as that now. And this is before Instagram, this is, Facebook was only just a thing. So there was nowhere to kind of market yourself, but,

Victoria (05:11)
which is amazing.

Yeah, Google was different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Vicki (05:30)
Google you could really cut through. No. No.

Victoria (05:31)
Yeah, the competition just was not what it is now. I mean,

I used to get weddings for, I used to just blog if I went away for a weekend and just blog some photos from that weekend. And then within a month, I’d have an inquiry for a wedding there. Like it was just so easy in comparison.

Vicki (05:45)
Yeah!

that I would literally

put a blog post up like, baby shooting Twickenham and then I’d get an inquiry for baby shooting Twickenham the next week. so much easier back then. So was quite a bold move it felt at the time but it paid off but it was nerve-racking at the beginning.

Victoria (05:52)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Happy days! ⁓

I think it’s interesting that you say the business came first and the photography came second because I mean, over the years, you’ll have read many a photographer’s bio as I have. And it’s, know, I was born with a camera in my hand. I first picked up a camera when I was six years old and the photo that they took and it is of course, you know, a passion. And for a lot of people, it’s a hobby that they then turn into a business. But I think the fact that you

Vicki (06:14)
Mmm.

Yeah

Yeah

Victoria (06:38)
approached it with a need or a want to begin a business and to invest in yourself and do something, create something for yourself that supported the motherhood journey that you wanted to go on and then photography kind of fit the bill. I think that’s so interesting. I didn’t know that. And I think that’s really interesting because actually I see you as a very savvy business person and you rode that wave. mean, I didn’t shoot.

Vicki (07:02)
Thank you.

Victoria (07:08)
families back then. ⁓ But you’re right, it was all those kind of white venture studio setups. And some of the poses, I remember my auntie had an amazing one where she and her husband, who were in their forties, are like lying on the floor, you know, with cradling their face in their hands and with the two babies either side. they had it enormous in their hall. And every time I saw it, I was like, But that was the thing, you know, that was what everyone did. And you offered something different.

Vicki (07:14)
Yeah.

this, yeah.

Yeah. Totally was the thing.

Yeah, and actually I have to thank Venture and the other studios for, because a lot of my clients came from them, but they were used to knowing, they knew how much they needed to spend because Venture wasn’t cheap. They’d get you in with £25, but then the cheapest frame was £800 or something. So actually when I’d go to my client’s houses and see they’d got these massive frames on the wall, I knew that they knew how much good photography was. it was just at that time that everything was shifting from studio

Studio photography being in fashion to something actually everyone wanted, that gorgeous natural photo of them in the forest or on the beach. And so I think, you you were there as well, just at the right time as, as lifestyle photography started taking off.

Victoria (08:20)
Yeah, but then what’s also interesting about that is you probably came in just as the kind of venture curve was falling into that more lifestyle approach. And actually what happened then is you had this massive wave of digital photographers and a lot of mums with cameras, a lot of mums with cameras who didn’t know how to charge for a sustainable business.

Vicki (08:43)
Yeah.

Victoria (08:49)
And actually you probably caught the clients that were used to that venture experience. Whereas if you came in two, three, four years later and you’re offering, you know, back then it was, you know, a CD and then a USB stick branded. ⁓ But yeah, probably I do too. ⁓ But it was, it was seemed as it, I don’t know, the value was not perceived in the same way that it had been with printed artwork. And so.

Vicki (09:03)
Yeah, I think I’ve still got some in the drawer.

Victoria (09:19)
just the idea of giving a high res file. know, then you had photographers coming in doing the same thing that you’re doing, but without any business guidance and without that sort of savvy ⁓ method of approaching it, looking at your numbers and thinking, okay, what do I need to make? Just going into it with probably a lot of imposter syndrome, a lot of, I don’t know, not probably lacking in confidence and looking around at what everybody else is doing.

Vicki (09:28)
Mm-hmm.

Victoria (09:48)
and offering a shoot with a collection of 50 digital files for 200 quid and burning out. Yeah, yeah.

Vicki (09:54)
Yeah, totally. Sometimes if that. You know, I’ve

mentored so many photographers and when they’re like, yeah but if I got job in Tesco’s I’d be earning this and they don’t, they’re not actually weighing up the amount of hours they’re putting into it. Plus their talent, their time, the cost of buying all the equipment in the first place. There’s so much that goes into it but yeah, you’re totally right. There was then a wave of mums with cameras that came in which I am exactly that. I was a mum with a camera.

Victoria (10:20)
Yeah, yeah, same. Well, I wasn’t

then, but I am now.

Vicki (10:22)
Yeah, so I never ever would say to someone, oh there’s all these mums with cameras because I was exactly the same. But I think back then, I did base my private, I was too cheap at the beginning like everyone is, but then started realising actually, this is the amount of work that goes into that one picture they might want and started charging properly for it. But it did take me probably a couple of years till I started, it’s only when you do your tax return after the first couple of years and you’re like,

Hold on, I have put in a lot of work for that and you suddenly think I need to put my prices up.

Victoria (10:52)
Yeah, yeah.

And did you find that actually clients came quite easily because you had young children and you were kind of, that was your network.

Vicki (11:00)
Yes,

completely. ⁓

You know, I remember I always wanted to do like a client family tree, so to speak, because I sometimes would have that one NCT friend and she would have all these friends and suddenly, you know, they would have loads of friends. And, you know, I remember one, uh, mama I photographed who came from my NCT group. worked for a national newspaper and put my photos in her newspaper and said, I’ve had a shoot with Vicky Knight. There’s not one family in the area that hasn’t had a shoot with her. And I was like, oh, wow. So it just sort of, yeah, completely.

Victoria (11:29)
That’s good PR, yeah.

Vicki (11:35)
it came from the fact, you and I think there’s lots of successful photographers that don’t have children, family photographers that don’t have children and are able to market, but I think there is an advantage if you have children of the same age. If I was kind of starting again now, having older teenage children, trying to, you know, I wouldn’t have that network of mums with young children. It would be harder, yeah.

Victoria (11:58)
And do you think that quite quickly you found that that decision worked well and that you were able to create a business that meant that you had the flexibility and freedom to be the mum that you wanted to be?

Vicki (12:17)
So yes and no, and I think there can be.

that two things can be true at the same time, can’t they? And I always sometimes think, you come the same day and the same second. And so, yes, of course, you you listen to that interview with Harrison and he said, you’ve always been around. You he doesn’t remember me not being there to pick him up from school, not being at an activity play or, you know, anything. I’ve always been around. However, you know, that’s why I asked him the question, do you think I’ve been more stressed? Because there have been times where I’ve suddenly been like, just sticking in front of CBBs and trying to get, you know, some emails out or trying to do a

Victoria (12:22)
On the same day, yeah.

Vicki (12:49)
editing, of course, but then I think that’s the same for anyone. That’s why I said there’s no such thing as a nine-to-five job. My friends who are in corporate careers still, they’re checking their emails all the time, they’re just as busy. No one finishes and swans back and they’re with the kids from six o’clock and can pay them their whole attention. So yes, of course it meant I was probably more stressed at times and especially those early years. I look back and think, my goodness, it was so stressful when you’ve got your kids around you the whole time.

Victoria (12:53)
Yeah.

Vicki (13:19)
You you want to be with them, but you also want to run your business. And I remember that having that balance of, I pay for childcare and get more childcare when they’re under school age? But that’s not why I’m doing this. You know, I did this so I didn’t have to do that. I remember meeting another photographer at a party.

and she was saying how many shoots she was doing, think she was doing like five, know, the amount of weddings and like five shoots a week. I was like, how? You’ve got the same age kids as me. She was like, they’re in childcare five days a week. I was like, okay, that makes quite a difference. ⁓ So then I was like, well, I could do that because the business was there. I could have, there was enough business for me to work full time.

Victoria (13:51)
Yeah, yeah.

Vicki (13:59)
So it’s like that balance with them, thought, don’t want to put them in childcare, otherwise I might as well go back to my old job. So those years before they went to school, which now, you know, my boys are 17 and 15, feels like it went so quickly. But I do remember at the time feeling like, this feels like this is going on a really long time because it’s really hard and working evenings a lot, you know, and then having to say to my husband, I’m really sorry. You know, we’d put the kids to bed, have dinner. And then he’s like, what do you want to watch? I’m like, I just need to work, I’m sorry.

Victoria (14:12)
Yeah.

That’s

me now, that’s me right now. Yeah.

Vicki (14:29)
Yeah, yeah. And it does, I remember those days

so well, you know, of constantly feeling like, and he’d go to bed and I’d still be sitting there, but I was loving it, if I’m honest, you know, I was, yeah.

Victoria (14:35)
Yeah.

But that’s the thing as well, it’s that,

you know, grappling with the ambition versus this nurturing side of you. Like obviously you want to be present and you want to just soak up this time with your babies while they’re little, but sometimes you want them to go away for a second while you do this other thing, which is for your business, which is, you know, yes, it’s for your business and yes, it’s putting, you know, money in the money box.

Vicki (14:50)
Yeah.

Victoria (15:10)
but also it’s kind of filling your cup in a different way.

Vicki (15:13)
Absolutely, completely. you know, that person that said, you know, if one person is going to come back, it’s going to be you. I knew that I couldn’t, you know, and I always think, oh, is that a bad thing to say? But I couldn’t just be a mom. And I know lots of people are very happy with that, but I’m not like an earth mother that’s going to be baking all the time. That’s just not me. So my brain needs to be doing something else. And like you said, I am really business minded and I love marketing. And so my brain’s always going, thinking about the next thing. And I needed.

you know, something I needed a business so that I could be, yeah, just all that creative stuff inside me. And it did work, know, and I would say like once they reached school age, the balance then was great because I did have that six or seven hours a day where I could focus on my business and then I’d be there for them afterwards, you know, from sort of three, four o’clock. So then it worked. But I do remember those, you know, what is it like six years, my boys are two years apart of

Victoria (15:47)
Yeah, yeah.

Vicki (16:10)
really finding that juggle hard. And my mum used to come up once a week, which was a godsend.

and she lived about an hour and a half away but she used to come up every single week and so I’d wake up on a Wednesday and think, it’s Wednesday, amazing! And even though I’d, you she wouldn’t just take them off, she’d be in the house but there wouldn’t be the guilt. I could sit down and be chacked down, she’d be getting them lunch and playing with them and I could just crack on and not feel guilty about it. ⁓ And then for about a year I did have a nanny one day a week. So a friend of mine said she wanted to this nanny and she could have her for four days so she said, I don’t suppose

be interested in, the only way can have her is if someone has her for one day a week. She can’t find anyone, don’t suppose you’d be interested in having her one day a week. I was like, that would be amazing! So for about a year, yeah, had her and she used to just pick them up and take them out for the day and the amount I would get done that day and also I’d go to the gym, I’d be like, oh my god, I can actually go to the gym and do some exercise and I’d just wake up and just like for nine hours be like, right, I can just get so much done.

Victoria (16:52)
Yes! That sounds great.

wow.

Yeah, it’s definitely that kind of season which I’m in where you are maximizing every minute because you’re so time poor. And actually I think back to like pre-kids, what I used to get done in a day in comparison to what I get done now. Like I feel phenomenal some days. I’m like, my God, the things that I have done today.

Vicki (17:21)
yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Victoria (17:36)
And then you kind of go into your evening shift and you’re still going because you’re still working. It’s a labor of sorts, know, dinner, bath and bed. But it’s amazing what you can do when you focus your attention. And that’s definitely a mum power of sorts.

Vicki (17:39)
Yeah.

Totally.

I sometimes joke, I think sometimes I used to get as much done in that three hour nursery time when my youngest started at nursery and they just have the mornings for a little while. I used to get probably as much done in that three hours as I do now in like old school day because you’re like, right, I’ve got to get everything done in three hours. There’s nothing as motivated as a mum whose kid has gone to nursery for three hours.

Victoria (18:07)
Yeah. You run to your desk.

No,

I really relate to that. Yeah, definitely.

Vicki (18:21)
⁓ Whereas now I’m like,

I’ll play bit of paddle in the morning and I’ll just do this and then you’re like, my god it’s two o’clock.

Victoria (18:28)
I know, but also

isn’t there a sense of urgency? I don’t know if you felt it in those early years and it’s all tied in with like your identity as a woman as well. Like the shock of becoming a mum and what that does to your sense of self. You you had this really clear idea you were gonna go back to your job and you love your job and it was in and out of London and like it was just gonna be like that. And suddenly you have this baby and you’re like, God, that might not work actually. Everything, you can’t be forewarned.

but you feel differently about it. And actually then you’re in this whole new world of motherhood and you’re getting in touch with this new maternal side that you didn’t really know was there, but you still kind of clinging onto elements of the old version of you. And that’s where the kind of creativity and the play just has to come out because otherwise you’re just changing nappies and feeds and naps and you’re kind of in this routine and you could just

you could just sink into it and turn on this morning. But if you have that kind of energy inside you, that you just have to get that out. And it’s almost sort of rallying against what’s happened to you, that you suddenly have all this very different and new and quite overwhelming responsibility that practically is quite repetitive and mundane. And you want something that feels exciting and feels like play. And I’ve spoken to a few mums

Vicki (19:30)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Completely.

Victoria (19:57)
Mom friends of mine who are further along, their children are a little bit older, I was one of the last to have kids. And they say now actually they look back and they just felt so frantic in that time in all senses. They just felt like this massive impatience, this sense of urgency, whereas now their children are kind of older and starting big school and they’re more independent.

and they finally feel themselves kind of settling back to what feels a little more familiar as to the them that was before. Do you feel that way?

Vicki (20:30)
Yeah

Those early, because I was one of the first in my friendship group to have kids. I think there was one other friend who’d got them, but a lot of my friends didn’t have them until about seven years later. So lot of their kids are much, much younger than ours. So they were still traveling the world, getting drunk every night, well not every night, but three times a week. And I’m there going, I’m just changing nappies all day. And it did make me feel like me having my business. And I don’t think I’ve ever been the sort of person that would just sit and put this morning on. just doesn’t, you

Victoria (20:35)
Okay.

Vicki (21:02)
⁓ I’m always sort of on the go, so I think you’re very similar to me when I’ve listened to some of your podcasts, that there’s that innate desire to create something, to build something, to do something, to get my brain working.

So, you I remember when, with both of my babies, like when they were asleep, that kind of two hours, just, yeah, I should have been cleaning the house or watching this morning or doing something else, but I was like, right, you know, straight away, open my laptop and just be working. And that, you know, I loved it. That was, yeah, that’s what, I know, yeah.

Victoria (21:34)
probably should have been asleep. You know, they say sleep when the baby sleeps. And I was like, no, it work when the baby sleeps.

Vicki (21:39)
I

mean, even like, you know, I sitting there breastfeeding, like coming, especially with my second, because my business was then two years old and it was flying. I mean, my business was doing so well, which is, you incredible when I look back at it. So, you know, sitting there breastfeeding on my laptop, just coming up with new ideas. I was going to run this workshop and I’m going to do this and I’ve got many sessions and just, you know, I should have been sat there. Now I look back and think, why were we not just sat there watching like Netflix, binging Netflix instead? I was like coming up with loads of new ideas, but it’s just, that’s why I…

felt like I wanted to be doing at the time.

Victoria (22:11)
Yeah, and I think that is, I find that really liberating. Because I think I’ve had the same thing where I feel bad that I’m not, because I know this time will pass so quickly that I’m not like absorbing it more and, you know, settling in the moment and appreciating it not being present enough or all of that. But actually, you know, we are who we are.

Vicki (22:23)
Mmm.

Victoria (22:34)
And if we’ve got a spare moment, we do what we want to do with it or what we need to do with it. And if for me, that’s, you know, I feel overwhelmed, I’m just going to clean the whole house, then so be it. And if for me on that day, I just want to really get stuck into work, then so be it. you know, whatever you feel inclined to do is probably the right thing, but we can so easily beat ourselves up about it. And I think you have to accept that inevitably when they’re older, you’re going to look back and think,

Vicki (22:37)
Yeah!

Yeah.

Yeah, totally.

Victoria (23:00)
Did I? You when they’re gone, you also aren’t too far from flying the nest. So when they’re gone, you’ll look back. I think it’s inevitable though. I don’t think there’s anything we could do about it. My mum still does it now and she’s like, you know, I wish that, you know, but she was very present when we were growing up, but she looks back on that time with such affection. And I think it’s inevitable that we’re gonna have those conversations with ourselves when our kids are gone, but we can only be who we are in the moment, you know.

Vicki (23:03)
No, I know, don’t, can’t talk about it. Yeah.

Mmm.

Yeah

And I would say to you and other people that are listening with young kids is I remember at the end of some days getting into bed and thinking I wasn’t a good enough mum. Sometimes you’d hear your and they’re trying to get your attention, you’re like just one second, just one second, I’m just doing this. And that’s going over and over in your head when you’re lying in bed thinking oh no, I really should have just sat down and said yeah, what is it, let’s play. And then now I look back.

And I think, but I was so present. I was there all the time. I know so many people and absolutely no judgment, you know, what works for you and what you need to do. But so many moms just, you know, they’re gone from seven in the morning to seven at night, which I would have been. In fact, probably longer, it would have been seven in the morning till about eight. So yes, there were times when I was like, I’ve just got to send this email. You know, I’m going to stick you in front of CBBs. But I was there the whole time. My boys don’t think, oh no, they just remember me being there. Just, you know, every single day I’d take them out to something

we’d go and do something, I’d take them to lots of clubs. And so yeah, of course there’s times where you’re like, right, I’m just going to stick you in front of TV, I’m going to sit next you, I’m going to just get some emails done. Of course, but that doesn’t make you a bad mum or anything. So I just, I wish I’d been kinder on myself back then and gone, actually, you’re doing a brilliant thing. And yeah, you can’t do everything perfectly because then you think, no, I haven’t got back to that email, you know, or I haven’t spent the time with my kids that I should have done in that moment. But I’m so grateful for it.

Victoria (24:50)
And actually some of it is,

well some of it is emptying your own head. You you can be a better mum for those three, four hours that come after if you get these emails out of your head. So it’s, you’re just riding that wave all the time, aren’t you? But I definitely appreciate that. I’m glad that you feel that way. Because you’re right, I don’t remember particular times when my mum was like, I’m not playing with you, I’m gonna put the wash on, or I’m not playing you and doing that. I don’t remember that, I just remember she was present, she was always there. And yeah.

Vicki (24:59)
Yeah, completely.

Yeah!

don’t think

any mums play with their children 24-7 you know it would be impossible so yeah yeah no they’ve got to be independent exactly yeah

Victoria (25:21)
Yeah, it’d be too much. Like, it’s, yeah, it’s not natural. It’s why we have play dates and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, completely.

But your business evolved hugely. You know, it’s kind of, it’s not completely unrecognizable, but it’s had a very organic evolution over time. So tell me about the point at which you decided to transition away from family photography. What was that like?

Vicki (25:39)
Yeah.

Do you know what, wasn’t like I woke up one day and went, I’m going to shift and move from family photography to branding photography. It was definitely an evolution over time. And I’ve always done headshots from since.

years into my business I think I used to run a business mom’s networking group and so I used to always do their headshots they’d refer me on and I remember the time thinking wow I wish I could do this all the time I love it but back then you remember as well people just needed one headshot they didn’t there was no such thing as you know coaches on Instagram posting photos themselves every single day people just needed that so I just need that one photo so I ran headshot mornings and it was always like you know just a headshot just chest up you know no one it was very rare anyone ever said oh could I have a

full length shot, could I have one of me, you know, on my laptop? That just didn’t happen. So it was very much a sideline. So I think my business sort of transitioned with also the trend of photography. And it just so happened that it worked perfectly with the age of my children as well. So as I was sort of, you know, once the boys were then at senior school.

Victoria (26:32)
Yeah.

Vicki (26:50)
and I wasn’t networking with other mums and you know, in that, you know, with lots of mums with young kids, that’s when I picked up a lot more of the branding photography, which is when that increased in popularity. So it was around 2018, I think, that branding photography kind of took over my family photography, but I still did the two in tandem for a little while. And I used to run, so I’ve always done…

other things on the side of my photography, if that makes sense. So when I was doing family photography, I used to run photography workshops for parents. So I did that at least once a month, which I loved. I always wanted to do, because I came from that sort of marketing business background, I always wanted to do other things and I love training and coaching. Then I sort of went into sort of part where I was still doing some of the workshops, but I was training photographers as well. So I used to…

run a retreat for family photographers and I had courses so it sort of transitioned into that. I don’t know if you found out about me through Shoot, Edit, Chat, Repeat so I had a podcast for photographers.

Victoria (27:48)
I

have listened to, I think, probably every episode of that, but I came to it really late. Like, I listened to it, yeah, I listened to it, I think, sort of from 2022, because it started before then, didn’t it? Yeah, I think it ended, or it’s ending, ending around that time.

Vicki (27:53)
How did you?

Oh wow, we’d ended them, yeah. Oh no, we… yeah. No, we finished at

the end of, yeah, 23 I think or something like that and it went for five years, so yeah, you were… Did you? Yeah. Yeah, me too. I think us photographers when we’re editing, we need something to listen to, don’t we? Yeah. So…

Victoria (28:07)
Okay, yeah. yeah, no, I just found it and binged the whole thing, but I am a podcast addict, so that’s what I do. Well, that’s it. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, so how did

the podcast come about then?

Vicki (28:22)
So that came about because I was training photographers and Eddie, who I ran the podcast with, she was doing Lightroom training for photographers. So we’d been friends. We’d connected on Twitter. I’d sort of reached out to her on Twitter, which shows where, you know, that’s what we were all on back then. That was about 2010, I think, and just said, do you want to go for a drink? Like a blind date? You’re the only other photographer I know nearby. Should we go for a drink? And then we were friends since then. Yeah, and it just came about. We were like, yes, let’s start a podcast.

Victoria (28:36)
You

Hahaha

Yeah.

Vicki (28:52)
We couldn’t find any pop cards for female photographers, like run by photographers, run by females for photographers. So yeah, we just saw a bit of a gap in the market and thought, well, let’s do it ourselves if we can’t find it. And I loved doing that. That was fantastic. And so yeah, that was sort of the middle part. And then in 2020 was when I launched my visibility retreat.

And just started thinking, actually, visibility and personal branding, like this is what I love teaching photographers on. I could teach all business owners on this. This doesn’t need to be just photographers. And whenever I was training photographers, that was the part I was interested in, was the personal branding, the marketing, the branding side of things. So yeah, so I decided to extend it. then I trained as a positive psychologist or positive psychology practitioner in

It was two years and I finished in 23, so like 21, 22 I was training in that. So that was sort of my biggest shift. think it was beginning of 2023 that I was like, right, I’m going to go for this. My branding photography, visibility, training and strategy and yeah, just go for that. But it was really hard.

leaving the other side, like changing my website. When I’d been doing family photography for 15 years, it is still on my website. I did create some pages but you can’t find it through the menu. If someone inquires, it is kind of there. Because I was like, I’ve got all these photos that I can’t bear not to have somewhere. But it was really hard. I think I let the photography workshops go first and that was really hard, you know, because they were still selling out. And lots of people thought I was mad, but I’d moved on.

Victoria (30:10)
Hahaha

Vicki (30:32)
and photography had moved on. When I first started working and running them, I used say to everyone, are you Nick on a cannon? And that would be it. And then it’s like, my God, there’s about 10 different models here that I’ve got to learn. And it got so much more complicated. And my boys are much older, so I wasn’t photographing them kind of every day around the house. yeah, my…

Victoria (30:43)
Yeah.

Vicki (30:56)
sort of moved on really so it’s really hard though in your business to let things go but you have to to then make way and make space for the new stuff you want to do I thought I can’t be doing that and create something around this visibility thing that I really want to do.

Victoria (31:12)
Yeah, I think it’s hard to let a business go that’s working.

So often, you know, we try something and it doesn’t stick or it doesn’t gain traction and we’ll try something and it doesn’t gain traction and you can find yourself in a position where you’re just looking for the thing. But it seems like all of your things have just been very successful. And so then you come…

Vicki (31:38)
be some that haven’t I think but yeah generally

I mean I work hard at it and there’s obviously a bit of luck in there as well but like she had a therapy we let go when you know it was a real

Victoria (31:48)
Yeah.

Vicki (31:50)
High? I now look at the downloads we used to get for that compared to the one I do now, which was so much higher for shoot, edit, chat, repeat. And when I tell people that, they’re like, why don’t you just do shoot, edit, chat, repeat? But again, my interest sort of changed. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so it is hard to let things go, but definitely worth it in the long run.

Victoria (32:04)
It doesn’t fit now, yeah. Yeah.

There’s a, yeah,

I was just gonna say there’s a level of self-awareness that comes with that. That we have seasons of life ourselves. You know, you have that season where you have your tiny children and everything seems to fit. And actually as they grow up, we do change as women as well because the demands upon us are different. We have a bit more space mentally.

Vicki (32:23)
Hmm.

Victoria (32:38)
to kind of pursue things or to just get back to who we are and what we’re interested in and to give yourself permission to just think outside the box and look at what you’re doing. And you’ve been doing it for such a long time and you’re a big fish in a small pond. You are the family photographer to go to in your area. People know you, you’ve got that reputation. And to move into something new does take a bit of courage, but I think

Vicki (32:52)
Mmm.

Victoria (33:08)
you kind of, did you kind of know intrinsically, you know, when you looked at it all, that it was time to make a change, that you couldn’t, did you want to be photographing families, you know, in your 50s and 60s? These are the questions you ask yourself.

Vicki (33:24)
That’s the thing as well,

is I was, when I thought about it and I was thinking, I never wanted to be in a position where I was waking up in the morning thinking, no, I’ve got to shoot today. Because that’s not fair, that’s not fair on me, it’s not fair on the family, it’s not fair on other photographers that would love that business. And I wouldn’t say, well, did I get to that point? Probably a little bit. And I was starting to resent working Saturday mornings.

One thing I really was so pleased with right from the very beginning of my business is I put boundaries in that I would only ever take shoots on Saturday mornings, not Saturday afternoons, not Sundays. So it was always a Saturday morning. I was home by midday and then I could get on with my weekend with my family. But even then I was missing football games and I started just missing out on things. Also friends would invite us around on a Friday and I’d be like, ⁓ I’ve got a shoot in the morning and I need to get a bit of an early night.

rhythm was out of flow with my husband’s and my friends and everyone else’s and so everyone else be waking up going yeah Saturday I’m like well this is the day I work. So I was starting to resent that a little bit and I’ve completely forgotten what your question was.

Victoria (34:33)
was all about kind of ⁓ giving yourself permission to shift direction. I I certainly felt that way around wedding photography because I had shot weddings for 11 years. And I think sometimes your actions kind of show you because I was being very particular about what weddings I would take and I was taking fewer and I was really thinking about the travel.

Vicki (34:37)
Yeah!

Hmm

Hmm.

Victoria (34:57)
Whereas, you know, five, six years earlier, someone inquires like, we’re getting married in Lake Como. Do you want, and I’ll be like, my God, yes. And then I was starting to be like, well, can I be asked going to Lake Como? And then I’m just like, this is, yeah, it just didn’t feel as, I don’t know, I just had lost a bit of that enthusiasm for it. And like you say, I did also think about other photographers that were just killed to shoot a wedding at Lake Como. And…

Vicki (35:07)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Mmm!

Yeah.

Victoria (35:22)
I was starting to think about the reality of that because of course you post those photographs and it looks amazing. And it’s great, know, who doesn’t love a trip to Lake Como? And it’s not like all my weddings were in Lake Como, obviously not. But I just started to think about practically all the other stuff around that to get you there and how much time I’d be away from home. And I was older and my bag was heavier. It wasn’t as appealing and I think that’s kind of when I knew that

Vicki (35:28)
Hmm.

Hmm.

Victoria (35:52)
I was edging out of it and then obviously I went on and had children and that was a kind of natural pause anyway. But yeah, it’s just about giving yourself permission to look at step back and look at it and just allow yourself to feel that because your body will probably tell you.

Vicki (35:57)
Yeah.

Yeah.

And, you know, I was then thinking to myself, I’ve been doing this for what, what I’ve been doing it like 13 years. I thought you wouldn’t be in the same job generally for 13 years. And I get bored quite easily anyway, you know, I like I always that’s why I say I’ve always got something else going on.

that works alongside my photography, because I need that to keep my inspiration going and just to stay motivated. And I was thinking, I’ve been doing this a really long time. And also there was a part of me, when I was photographing kids the same age as my children, I knew all the programmes they were watching, I knew how to talk to them. And as my boys were getting older, my clients were staying the same age, my clients’ children. I was sometimes talking to them like teenagers thinking, my God, I’ve lost my magic here.

Victoria (36:51)
Yeah,

Vicki (36:52)
I forgot what I’m doing. And it just felt like,

Victoria (36:52)
that’s true.

Vicki (36:54)
it just felt really natural to me.

to move on from that. And I still do occasionally, I don’t ever advertise it or anything, but I still do occasionally do some mini sessions for families that have been with me since I started. So their kids are now all like pretty much the same age as mine or a few years younger. And they’re like, please never stop doing this because we’ve got, they’ve got literally photos on the wall from every single year. And I think, I’d feel really bad to stop doing it. So I do still do some family sessions for them. Yeah.

Victoria (37:18)
Which is so lovely, yeah.

Yeah, but that’s nice. I really love that continuation

in that client relationship. You know, I’ve got a lot of wedding clients that I photograph them with their kids now, you know, and that’s really nice to be, you feel like you’re part of their story, which is, there’s something lovely about that. I totally get that. You could be photographing their grandkids in 20 years time. Yeah. Yeah.

Vicki (37:28)
And I love seeing the kids, yeah.

Yeah

Totally. Yeah. Yeah, and some of them are like, always seeing Auntie Vicky. So many times and

yeah, and they remember, know, now the kids are sort of, I can have like a normal conversation with them and ask them about what they’re doing at school. And it’s so nice because I remember when going around doing their newborn shoots. So yeah, I’ll always keep doing that, but it’s not something that’s part of my marketing or anything.

Victoria (38:01)
Yeah, you don’t want

to start that cycle again with another newborn family. No. So tell me about the… go on. Sorry.

Vicki (38:04)
Exactly, yes exactly! But yeah, ⁓ sorry.

You asked me the question, like, did I look into the future and think, do I want to be doing this in my 50s and 60s? And I mean, think there are plenty of photographers in their 50s and 60s, but I just thought I can’t imagine me doing that. It’s also very physical photographing families. So you’re on your knees the whole time. And actually, one of the reasons was I had a skiing injury a couple of years ago and I couldn’t kneel for about a year, like couldn’t kneel down. It made me realise, with family photography, I used to just dive on the floor, know, I’m suddenly kneeling and my legs are to the side.

Victoria (38:24)
Yeah, it is. Yeah.

Yeah.

Vicki (38:40)
and I couldn’t do that because I’d got this knee injury I was like I feel like an old woman and I just thought I’m not sure I’m gonna be wanting to do this in ten years time. Whereas banding photography is a little bit more gentle I don’t have to kneel on the floor quite as much still do sometimes but I’m not diving onto the floor

Victoria (38:54)
Exactly, yeah, you can stand up, maybe bend slightly and that’s as far as it goes. Yeah, it’s always the photographer in the mud whilst the family is safe on high ground. So tell me about the training that you did because obviously, you know, to pivot from family photography to this whole world of visibility.

Vicki (38:56)
Yes, yeah. And I can wear nice clothes. I don’t have to wear waterproof trousers.

Yeah, totally, yeah.

Victoria (39:20)
which is, like you say, it is interesting because you kind of followed the trend of marketing. Suddenly we’re in this new world and I really felt it because I was out of photography for about four or five years. And when I posted on Instagram in 2018, I just post one picture, I’d get like 50 likes and Bob’s your uncle were done. Whereas then I came back and I was like, yeah, what’s a real, what is all this stuff? And it just changed so, so quickly. And suddenly,

Vicki (39:39)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Victoria (39:49)
small business owners have to put themselves out there and tell their story in a very, I mean, what can feel like a very intense, and it’s almost quite aggressive to kind of have this camera looking right back at you and you have to sell yourself. You’re not writing a blog article. This feels very vulnerable. And we’ve all got our own sort of hangups that we understand.

Vicki (39:55)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Mmm!

Victoria (40:19)
as photographers, you know, we could have a picture that we’ve taken of somebody and think, God, they look beautiful. And then they come in and be like, no, my chin is a bit funny. And you’re thinking, my God, I would never think that. I think you look gorgeous, but they have their thing. And that’s okay. It’s for them. You know, they have their thing and we’ve all, yeah, like you say, we’ve all got our things, but it’s quite affronting to suddenly have to present yourself in a very open.

Vicki (40:30)
Totally, yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah, we all do, yeah.

Victoria (40:48)
way and nobody in 2018 is used to being filmed to talk about their business but it is a demand of marketing for small business owners in 2025 and it was in 2023. So again very savvy move on your part to help people with this because as family photographers you see the transformation is that you’ve got a parent

Vicki (41:00)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Victoria (41:14)
who, and I’m sure you were the same, people would book it because they want beautiful pictures of their kids, but then you ease them into the frame and suddenly they get these pictures and they see them for the first time and they think, wow, I actually look pretty, and they feel almost shy to say it. I actually look quite good there. and you’re like, yeah, of course. And they need to be part of that story. But you’ve seen that transformation, particularly in women, and you’ve seen it as mothers, but you know that it’s possible and the power of good photography.

Vicki (41:21)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Victoria (41:43)
to really empower women. It’s massive, isn’t it? And did that feel, go on.

Vicki (41:48)
Yeah, yeah, I

was just going to say, just on your point there, whenever I was training family photographers, I used to always say, just make mum look good, because if mum looks good, she’s going to love the photos. She loves her kids whatever they look like, really. But really make sure that you flatter mum and make her look amazing and make her feel great, then she’s going to love the photos.

Victoria (41:58)
Yeah, she’ll buy the picture. Yeah.

Yeah, and all of that, because that’s a skill in itself that you presumably you taught, you you learn on the job, don’t you? You you take a picture where mum doesn’t look great, you don’t sell that picture. You know, the kids might look gorgeous, but if mum doesn’t like the way her chin is or the way her hair is, it’s not gonna work. And mum’s making those purchasing decisions and women are responsible for a lot of purchasing decisions. And in their businesses, women are going to be particular about how they are presented because

Vicki (42:20)
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah.

Victoria (42:39)
You’re putting yourself out there, if you’re a service provider, particularly, and if it’s a creative service, you know, all the copywriters, all the VAs and all of these women that are going out providing a service, it’s very vulnerable, as it is to be a photographer selling your service, and you could no longer lead with your product. You know, we used to put our photos on there, and it didn’t matter what we look like. It just, you know, people would be like, you know, that’s a beautiful photo. Can I book you? The end.

Vicki (42:58)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Victoria (43:08)
Whereas now we have to go on and tell people what we do and that’s what’s expected. how do you now help female business owners and I suppose many of them will be mums to show up for their businesses in this new world that we’re all living in for better or worse?

Vicki (43:19)
Mmm.

But yeah, you’re exactly right there, is

that, yeah, it’s so different. I I used to, I remember on Facebook, that was like my platform at the time that I was using and getting great traction on, you know, I could put up one post and sell out a workshop and that, was amazing days back then. But I remember I wasn’t really sharing myself. So my blog had my tone of voice in it and people got to know me by the way I was talking, I’d share photos of my boys.

But I remember once just sharing a photo with me with the boys on a snowy day and got so much engagement because everyone was like, oh wow, it’s so nice to see you. I didn’t really know what you look like.

Victoria (44:02)
Yeah.

Vicki (44:02)
because

they were just used to me talking on my blog and yeah and then they’d never really actually seen me and you could get away with it back then and yeah I realised seeing people that they’d start a business maybe they’d start a nutrition business or as a personal trainer and they love what they do but then they’re like but I don’t want to

put myself online and I totally get it. You know, I was exactly the same. I didn’t actually start showing my face and talking to camera till about 2019. I’d got the podcast before then, that felt a bit safer to me, but actually doing videos and talking to camera felt really kind of unsafe. I had to do a lot of mindset work and then I realised…

I was creating these beautiful photos for people and I had some clients that, you they’d be like, my God, I love these photos. Is it arrogant for me to say like, I really love how I look in them? And then I’d see them at networking do or something like six months later and say, haven’t seen you share your photos? They’re like, I know, just, something’s stopping me. I love them, but feel like people are going to think I’m arrogant or, know, and so there was all this stuff, yeah.

Victoria (45:06)
It’s so hard. Yeah. Yeah.

Vicki (45:08)
All

these visibility blocks that we have, the inner critic can be really mean to us at times. And so I wanted to train in that to be able to help people with it alongside my photography. I don’t always, I do the two things separately. So some people come to me for coaching, some people come to me for photography, some people do both.

What I love is when I can bring both together, which is what I do like at my retreat, for example, because then I am doing all the coaching with them, all the training and lots of mindset, staff and strategy, and I’m taking their photos so I can work with them really holistically. But I also do work with people separately. But there’s, I think the mindset piece is a massive part of it.

Because a lot of what people do, I could see, is they’re taking all these workshops and learning how to make reels, like you said, and how to create a lead magnet and how to send emails. And then they’re still not doing it. They’re still like, I know what to do, but something is stopping me. And it’s generally because they haven’t done the mindset work on it and something’s really holding them back. And my positive psychology diploma, I didn’t just do for that, to be honest. I wanted to do for me as well.

Read this book, Brain X X, it’s called, all about brain health in midlife. And one of things they said is learning in midlife is really good for your brain and really protects against Alzheimer’s, which I have in my family. So I was like, well, I love my business, but I can kind of do photography standing on my head. Like, it’s not really working. I mean, in family photography, quite often I was nearly doing that.

Victoria (46:39)
I’d like to see that, but yeah.

You

Vicki (46:47)
It’s really creative, but I was thinking, am I really using my brain and learning something new? Possibly not. So I did the diploma, it was level five, and it was really academic. A lot of papers I had to read, a lot of assignments, so it really tested me academically. That’s one of the reasons I did it. But my whole focus in it was confidence, so helping entrepreneurs with confidence in my whole.

dissertation at the end was all around that. So it really, it helped me with my work more than I thought it was going to be able to. I thought this was just a really interesting thing I could do on the side and then actually I realised I could weave it all in perfectly.

Victoria (47:25)
Yeah, it sounds like a really beautiful blend of skills that align. You know, you’ve got so many tools in your tool belt there that you can deploy to help people because again, you know, mindset is enormous and not having the right mindset stops you taking action in so many ways. And sometimes it can be absolutely crippling, but that mindset piece is going to be slightly different for everybody.

Vicki (47:34)
Mmm, exactly yeah.

Victoria (47:54)
the barriers that we put up that hold us back from doing the thing, whatever the thing is, are going to be varied. And yet you’ve got all of this knowledge to kind of unpick that with people.

Vicki (48:08)
Yeah, exactly. No, it’s completely different for everyone because it comes from the conditioning we’ve had in our lives and the conditioning that we have.

I mean, there’s a lot of similarities if you’re a female, especially a British female, there’s so much to know about like, don’t show off and, you know, she’s a bit too much and all of this kind of stuff. So it’s very similar, but we all have our own thing generally, and it’s trying to unpick. And that’s why I have my podcast to have these conversations to try and find out what was your thing? Like what held you back? know, mine was always worrying that people would think I was arrogant. And I talk about that in my podcast. So that was my thing. That’s not everyone’s thing.

Victoria (48:24)
Yeah, yeah.

Vicki (48:44)
you know, worried about what they’re going to think they look like or if they’re be judged, you know, but yeah, we’ve all got that one. And once you actually really unpack that and start thinking, where’s that come from? And start telling yourself, that younger version of you, that actually it’s safe now and it’s okay. It starts feeling much easier, but it takes a lot of work. It’s not something you can just like, oh, half an hour, sorted, you know.

Victoria (49:09)
Yeah, because that’s years and years of messaging that you’ve been telling yourself. You know, there might’ve been a moment or a particular incident that ignited that, but then often, you know, we’re talking about women in their 30s and 40s, perhaps 50s, that have been telling themselves that story for years. And so, yeah, unpicking that is gonna take repeated effort, repeated effort, but it must be hugely rewarding to help.

Vicki (49:13)
Yeah!

Yeah.

takes a long time. Yeah. Yeah.

Victoria (49:36)
women step into the frame, I find it just in family photography, just the transition and how empowered and positive people can feel about themselves just from one shoot. So doing all of that mindset work and then being able to take the picture. And this is the beautiful thing about your retreats that you can blend all of those things together. And so they’re coming away with something tangible as well, that they can kind of always look back at those photos and think how good.

Vicki (49:46)
Yeah.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Victoria (50:06)
they felt during that experience. So how often do you run these retreats? Tell me about those.

Vicki (50:07)
Yeah, exactly that.

So actually

I did two this year, because I ran one in Spain for the first time, which was amazing. I’m really nerve-racking and quite a lot of pressure, but amazing at the end of it. And I’d for some reason love to throw myself into these things that I’m then halfway through thinking, even like halfway through promoting it. And then like the day before I flew out and there was a power outage as I was flying out there, I thought, Vicki, why do you do this to yourself? You could just be sat at home watching this morning. But no, you’re on a plane to a country where there’s a power outage and you’ve got 12 people joining you. It’s like, oh my God.

Victoria (50:15)
Which sounds awesome, yeah.

Hahaha

Yeah.

Vicki (50:41)
But my one that I run in Sussex, I’ve run that every, in fact it’s a venue that I’ve held my retreats at since 2016, so I used to run them there for photographers. it feels very familiar, much easier on my nervous system, because it’s all catered for, we’re all in the same house. Yeah, that’s much easier. And so yeah, I run that once a year in September, I’ve actually got it coming up in a couple of weeks. And it’s just a lovely few days and very, I like to make everything, you we’ve talked about it in this, but very holistic in that.

Victoria (50:50)
Okay.

Yeah.

Vicki (51:10)
It’s not about just sitting in a room and training or having a photo taken. I believe that business needs to be holistic. We need to look after ourselves first. There’s no point just running a business if we’re not feeling healthy. know, our health comes first, our wellbeing comes first, our mental health comes first. So that’s why I incorporate like cliff walks and yoga and fireside chats and vision boarding and yeah, all of that stuff as well because then…

Victoria (51:31)
Which is so nice. Yeah. That’s food

for the soul stuff.

Vicki (51:37)
Totally. So even when people say even without the business stuff and the photos, this would have been such a lovely experience anyway. So you actually leave it feeling like, I’ve had a really lovely time and I feel better in myself, not worse. So yeah, no, I love running it. It’s my favourite thing. Yes, exactly. Yeah, completely.

Victoria (51:41)
Hahaha

You’re filling everybody’s cup, probably, I imagine.

So what would you advise if there’s perhaps a mum out there listening who has a business or is thinking of starting a business, but just, has seen Reels and is on Instagram, obviously, but you know, thus far they’re just kind of watching everybody else and they are tentative, like they’re nervous about putting themselves at the forefront of their business and getting visible. What advice would you give?

to get started.

Vicki (52:24)
Well,

My best advice would be just to start. Courage loves action. so many people sit there waiting for the confidence fairy to come and sprinkle the confidence dust on their head. And they’re like, well, I’ll do it when. I’ll do it when I’ve lost some weight or when I feel a bit more confident or when. And that’s never going to happen. We all say that. And then a year later, you’re like, I never actually did it. So just taking those baby steps. And I always talk about the comfort zone. And I don’t believe in leaping so far out of your comfort zone

you feel horrible but just expanding it doing that first brave thing like I said it was like 2019 before I even posted a talking video and I remember when I put it up on Instagram thinking I thought the whole world was gonna stop and look at it you know like the internet was gonna crash and like ⁓ I’m gonna start getting texts from friends going who do think you are and I mean I’m like ⁓ nothing happened it was fine actually everyone’s been really encouraging now I don’t really think twice about it so all of those little baby steps do get easier

Victoria (53:08)
You

You

Yeah, you’re absolutely right. Action comes before confidence. I think that’s so often now, you the more you do something, you weren’t very good at walking. You know, we can learn so much from our kids, but they don’t get nervous and not try. And nor did you when you were a child, you know, you have to try these things and it’s practice that builds confidence. It’s not gonna suddenly occur to you to feel really bold and courageous and confident before you do this stuff. And everyone is in the same boat.

Vicki (53:29)
Totally.

Yeah!

Yeah, totally.

Yeah, completely.

Victoria (53:54)
You know, everyone feels awkward as hell about it before they do it.

Everyone posts their first reel and just wants to go and crawl into a hole. It’s totally normal. So what would you… Yeah.

Vicki (54:00)
Yeah, exactly. Victoria, just quick, sorry, just really quickly,

it has come up and said that my Mac is about to go to sleep, yeah. Okay, great.

Victoria (54:08)
Okay, I’m going to ask you one last question then. So looking

back now, you’re a mum, you’ve achieved all these things in your business. What would you say now to your eight year old self?

Vicki (54:19)
I’ve heard you ask this on your previous episode. So I was on a dog walk the other day thinking about it. What would I say? And my instinct is to say nothing at all first because I don’t want to affect where my life’s gone. Do you know what I mean? Yes, it’s like, no, because it’s like that butterfly wing. I might say something and then she goes off and does something else and I don’t meet my husband and have my kids and everything else. But I think I would say, so I’m always a bit nervous, but I think I would say you don’t have to

Victoria (54:30)
This is time travelers rule. Yeah. ⁓

You

Vicki (54:48)
the smileiest and the chattiest person in the room for people to like you. I think we all have that sort of people pleasing tendency, I certainly do. And I think growing up, I definitely felt like I need people to like me and in order for them to like me, I’ve got to be like, hi, how are you? Like really bubbly and getting older I now see I don’t need to do that and it doesn’t matter if everyone likes me or not. So I would just say you don’t need to do that. You don’t have to put this mask on all the time and try and be the friendliest person in the room because people will like you anyway.

Victoria (55:04)
Yeah.

Vicki (55:18)
The people who need to like you and you want to like you will like you without you doing that.

Victoria (55:23)
Yeah, and that’s so appropriate when we’re thinking about showing up online. We think we’ve got to be, you know, hilarious or we’ve got to be hugely insightful. And actually really all you need to do is be you and the right people will find you. You don’t, like you say, it doesn’t need to be everybody. And some people won’t like you, that’s life. Cause you don’t like some other people. Like some people aren’t the right fit and it’s all good. No, I think that’s really lovely advice. Interesting that you’re…

Vicki (55:34)
Yeah, totally. Yeah.

Exactly! Yeah.

Victoria (55:50)
You’ll say, you’ve obviously had a lovely life because you just don’t want anything to change. So you don’t want to affect that eight year old girl. And that was no bad thing. So tell me where can everybody find you online? Where should they track you down?

Vicki (55:55)
Yeah, and it’s just, yeah, exactly, yeah.

So where I hang out the most

is Instagram, so I am Vicky Knights. And then my website is vickyknights.co.uk. But yeah, they’re the main places that I tend to hang out. And I’ve got a free visibility guide as well. They can find that right at the top of my website.

Victoria (56:18)
Amazing, I will track that down and put it in the show notes so people can go straight there.

Vicki (56:23)
And my podcast is showing up with Vicky Niles, which I think you said at the beginning. yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

Victoria (56:26)
Yes, and it’s awesome. Definitely go and look at that. It’s really

interesting. ⁓ Brilliant. Thank you so much. I’ll let you go before your computer crashes. But I’ve loved this conversation, Vicky. It’s been so insightful. I really appreciate you taking the time and yeah, keep doing what you’re doing. I love the podcast. I love following your journey. yeah, paving the way.

Vicki (56:35)
Yes! ⁓

Thank you. Well, thank you for everything you’re doing and

good luck with, you obviously you’ve just started on your podcast journey, but good luck with it. And I think you’re a brilliant interviewer, by the way, so thank you.

Victoria (56:55)
That’s very kind. Thank you.