Episode 6: Podcasting, Imposter Syndrome And Community With Megan Tobler

Megan Tobler (00:07)
it was really important for me as I was bringing my son into this world for him to be able to see that you can make your dreams possible. I want him to see that his mom had dreams and that.

She worked day after day to be able to make those a reality for our family, but also for him as well.

Victoria (00:23)
Hello and welcome to the Mum Means Business podcast, where we shine a light on inspiring women who have one thing in common. When they’re not managing tantrums, homework, pee-kits and play dates, they are busting their gut to create something from nothing, to turn their passion into a thriving business and build a better life for themselves and their families. We dig into what motivates devoted mothers to pursue entrepreneurship and how they integrate their work and family life.

I’m Victoria, your host, and if you’re an ambitious mum in need of some solidarity whilst navigating the messy middle of making your big dream a reality, then stick around. This is for you.

Victoria (01:00)
My guest today is passionate about empowering women to pursue their ambitions unapologetically, sharing relatable advice, actionable strategies and real life stories online. Founder of Self-Starter, she is cultivating a vibrant online community designed to support and inspire women who are building businesses around their lives. Unexpectedly finding herself unemployed when she was pregnant with her son, the realization dawned that the safe corporate career in sales was not so safe after all.

and she was prompted to reflect on what she really wanted in Megan Tobler sees the moment to change direction and pursue a different path. She said in an interview earlier this year, sometimes the moments that shake us the most are the ones that set us free. Megan launched a self-starter podcast from her home in Orange County, California back in 2022, and the rest is history. Like so many of us, Megan is building her business in the in-between moments being mama to her little boy.

And it’s this firsthand experience of navigating the challenges of entrepreneurship and family life that connects her so authentically to her audience. Megan, I suspect we are going to have way too much to talk about, and I cannot wait to hear more about your journey. Welcome to the Mummeets Business podcast.

Megan Tobler (02:11)
Thank you so much for having me, Victoria. This is something I’ve really been looking forward to myself.

Victoria (02:15)
me too. I think a good transatlantic conversation on all things motherhood and business is it cannot be a bad thing. And I’m sure there’s going to be loads of synergy in what we talk about today. But first, I would just like to hear your story in your own words. You had had this long career in sales and that leap to entrepreneurship is quite a big deal when you’ve been in the corporate world. So what made you do it?

Megan Tobler (02:40)
You eloquently were talking about it in your wonderful introduction, but I was really forced into entrepreneurship. It was something that I had always had on my heart, but I really wasn’t sure how to make that dream a reality. Like you said, I was in sales for over 10 years and I was climbing the ladder and I was getting the awards and I was making great money, but something inside of me felt like there was something missing. I was commuting, I mean, I’m in California.

by Los Angeles, so if anyone’s ever come across the pond over on this direction, you don’t talk about miles or kilometers, you talk about how long is it gonna get there. And I say that because I was spending up to three hours each way commuting to and from work to go to my corporate sales job. So I was doing that for sales, you’re on a commission-based structure, so I was really working around the clock. And so I was scratching my head thinking,

Victoria (03:20)
Wow.

Megan Tobler (03:31)
how on earth can I have a nice income and a nice life for myself, but also be present for my future family? Because I always knew that I wanted to be a mom, but with that current scenario, I wasn’t sure how I was gonna make that happen. So again, I was always thinking, what could I do? I was very entrepreneurial minded. but I never really pursued anything. So I took a step back and in October of 2022, I actually,

my first podcast episode. But it wasn’t just a let’s press record and see what happens. No, I really took a step back and I thought about, what is it about what I do today that I enjoy? What is it that I do well? And what can I really learn from in this experience? And I figured, okay, I love talking to people. I love learning their stories. and I’m curious. I’m curious to learn how other people have done it. So I figured why not start with a podcast?

where I can interview other women who had come before me that had taken the leap out of corporate and had found success. So that’s exactly what I did. I pressed record and I started interviewing these women and I fell in love. And so that was in October of 2022. In January of 2023, I hired my first business coach. Then literally a week later, I found out I was expecting my son. So I almost like halted the breaks a little bit thinking, okay,

I don’t think I’m quite yet to fully let myself out of corporate, but I’d already put that out into the universe. And I realized that you have to be very careful with what you ask for because if you put it out there, you might just very well get it. And that’s exactly what happened. I found myself right after I announced my pregnancy, a part of a mass layoff. And overnight, I went from having a really great income to an income of zero. Well, I had my husband’s income, of course, but for me personally,

There was nothing and I was pregnant and I didn’t know what to do next. But I had this wonderful, beautiful project that I already started called the Self-Starter Podcast. And I had a conversation with my husband after I had gone to 40 interviews in the span of two weeks. And I said, I am not, yes, I worked harder in those two weeks than I’d ever worked in my corporate job to find another job. And I told him, I said, I can’t do this. We have to figure out another way. And he, we took a step back. We looked at the finances and we said, okay.

Victoria (05:27)
Wow.

Megan Tobler (05:41)
If not now, then when? So that’s really the moment where I truly began my entrepreneurial journey. And I believe that if it wasn’t for that layoff, I wouldn’t be where I am today.

Victoria (05:49)
It’s the story of so many women, isn’t it? It’s that moment of finding out that you’re pregnant in your case, or perhaps you just assume it’s all gonna be fine and then you actually have the baby and you’re looking at your baby and thinking, God, how is this going to work? And that is what prompts the massive shift. Because you have an idea in your head about what sort of mum you want to be and you want to be present and you’re spending like three hours in the car every day.

and you’re taking calls here, there and everywhere and you’re on this commission, it’s drive, drive, go, go, go, go, go for somebody else essentially. and then actually is almost taken out of your hands. interesting that you started the podcast before that happened and before you were pregnant. did you feel any imposter syndrome?

Having just started a podcast myself, I don’t know if you’ve heard of it. It’s called Mom Means Business. And I felt that thing, yeah. And I felt a massive amount of imposter syndrome. And like I’m 40 years old and I’m a mother of two and I’ve done stuff. But I was like, who am I to start a podcast? Did you feel any of that or were you just really, really excited?

Megan Tobler (06:38)
that little thing.

absolutely, and I still feel that today. I think it’s something that it’s just in our innate human nature anytime we’re trying something new that the imposter syndrome keeps in. But I think that where the difference is between the people that are just kind of sitting in the imposter syndrome and the people that are actually like seeing that quote unquote success that we all see, it’s because they’ve taken the action and they’ve worked through that. So I didn’t share this part in my little intro there, but I actually pressed record on my first podcast episode in June of 2022.

I didn’t release the first episode until October of 2022. So that’s like imposter syndrome right there because I thought about who’s gonna listen to this? me? All the things that wasn’t perfect. And then I decided to invest in a course and I will be honest with you, I didn’t even finish the course. I didn’t need it as far as like getting the stuff done, cause I’d already done it. It just needed the inspiration and that came with it to be able to actually hit.

publish. So absolutely imposter syndrome came into action, but I just got to the point where I had had enough. I was constantly working and overworking myself day in and day out where I knew that this life was not sustainable for the life that I wanted to have. So I think you get to a certain point where your desire for more and for change becomes so great.

that you don’t even care about the fact that you are suffering from imposter syndrome. You just do it despite the fact that yes, you might feel like maybe you’re not ready or maybe inadequate, but it’s just like that.

that desire for more is so much greater.

Victoria (08:26)
it’s when you get to the point where you just can’t bear yourself for not doing anything at all. You have to make the change. And I totally relate to that.

Megan Tobler (08:30)
Absolutely. Yes.

Victoria (08:34)
But I think, yeah, imposter syndrome, I’m glad that you felt it too and it’s not just me because it’s when you pivot and you change direction, especially if you’ve been a big fish in a small pond, you you were a very experienced salesperson and you’d established yourself and this is where you live. And also people see you as that, you know, oh, Megan works in sales, Megan’s good at sales. did you feel like you’d done?

all the things that you were supposed to do through school and studying college and you’d kind of got to where you were supposed to be according to the rule book of life and you had this identity, yeah, and then you’re kind of breaking out of it and people are like, what are you doing? What’s happening?

Megan Tobler (09:02)
100%. Yes.

Yes, well, and I

think especially the people close to you in your life, when you kind of shake things up like that a little bit, they’re caught off guard because it is out of character for you to do something so extreme. And so in maybe in their words, risk taking, but to me, it felt like the bigger risk was actually going back into corporate because that wasn’t my first layoff. That was my second mass layoff. And it showed me that it was no longer the safe route because

I was the top performer at both of those companies, but what happened is there’s just outside circumstances that are sometimes out of your control. And you could be the top performer, you could be doing all the things, getting all the awards, but it doesn’t matter when their business objectives just don’t align anymore. So that’s why I fully believe in starting something of your own if you have that inside of you, because not everyone does and that’s okay. But if there’s something inside of you that’s burning for more, then I say you have to listen to that.

That’s really ultimately what I did. and I will be honest with you, Victoria, I am nowhere near where I would like to be, but I show up every single day and I still suffer from imposter syndrome, but I make the choice to continue forward despite feeling that way.

Victoria (10:15)
which is brilliant. it is all about tenacity, keep showing up, perseverance. You get knocked down, you pick yourself back up, imposter syndrome creeps in, you tell it to go away, you know, and that actually takes a lot of resilience. So tell me how your podcast evolved. So were you originally interviewing other women and just…

listening to their stories and sharing their stories. And did it change at all? Did you start sharing your own experience a bit more as things went on? Because I think that’s tied into imposter syndrome too, isn’t it? You share other people’s because you don’t think yours is worth telling.

Megan Tobler (10:49)
And I still suffer from that. That’s something that I’m constantly having to push myself out of my comfort zone to do because nailed it like right on the head there. I started sharing other people’s stories because I was genuinely curious about what they were doing and I was learning and I was growing from that. I was never looked at as the I had accumulated all this knowledge out there, but.

Victoria (10:51)
Hahaha

Megan Tobler (11:10)
my voice really wasn’t being heard. I was giving other people a platform, but no one really got to know Megan. And so as I continued and really moved this podcast along, that was the biggest piece of advice that especially my business coach had given to me. She said, what you’ve created is beautiful and brilliant. However, no one knows you.

So I would recommend incorporating some of your own personal stories into there. So that way they really get to know you, like you and trust you. So that way eventually when you do have a product to sell, then it’s already like factored into the equation there. So that was something that was really hard for me to do because just like you said, I thought about, well, who’s gonna wanna know my story? What do I have to share? But what I started to do is I took baby steps. So I still kept my once a week show where I was interviewing these other individuals.

And what I did at first was I took a specific concept from that episode and I broke it out to do a mini episode of my own where I was taking that concept, that idea and breaking it down into my relatable terms. Like how does that apply to my business? How am I working through that? So it wasn’t necessarily coming in as the expert more along as this is what I’ve learned and come along the journey with me. That has evolved a little bit. So

started out by just interviewing these female entrepreneurs. Then I decided to niche down where I’m focusing on moms building businesses. So my podcast is going through a little bit of a transition without actually like making that huge announcement, but my entire brand has very much been in line with exactly what you’re doing here. It’s really shining a light on these moms that are building businesses. And so that has been helpful in my journey and sharing my own story because…

I am a mom and I am building my business. So that’s really how I’ve been able to show it more confidently because I feel like I’m not feeling as much like an imposter like we were talking about because I’m truly going through that now and I might be able to help someone that’s even maybe two steps behind me. So that’s just kind of how I’m thinking about things as I’ve been able to evolve in my own podcasting and entrepreneurial journey.

Victoria (13:11)
Absolutely, and it happens organically, I you can’t bully someone out of that imposter syndrome. I think the confidence comes from action, right? So the more you’re doing this, the more knowledge you’re gaining, and the more knowledge hopefully I’ll be gaining. And also you’re connecting with people and those relationships, I think I’m only like a few episodes in. And already I’m so much closer to those women who were some of them strangers.

or have reconnected with people who were friends who I hadn’t spoken to for a long time. And I think there’s something about long form conversation that is so powerful and sharing those stories and those relationships will continue and you’re naturally growing your network. So I think it’s brilliant.

Megan Tobler (13:50)
I personally,

I think what you’re doing is genius because the podcasting route has been a slow route for me. But like, just like you said, it has built most amazing connections that I wouldn’t have had if I hadn’t have chosen to press play. And like you were talking about right now, the conversations you have already have, they’re like very intimate. You’re getting closer to these individuals. And my most cherished interviews, it’s interesting, my,

Victoria (14:13)
Yeah.

Megan Tobler (14:18)
was talking to me the other day and she’s going through my entire from beginning to end right now as she’s looking to start her own business. And she was telling me about episodes that I had done And she would just talk about these individuals not saying their name. And I’d be like, yeah, that’s Sam. yeah. And I’d be able to like say all of their names because these are memorable conversations to me. And I think if you have a steep desire for connection,

then having a podcast is a beautiful way to be able to not only put your own work out there, but also to just like meet incredible women and to grow from the entire experience. So what you’re doing here is, it’s game changing and you might not even know it yet, but just stick with it. I saw somewhere that said, the most successful people aren’t there because of talent, they’re there because of consistency. And so the fact that like your initial goal, we had talked about this.

Victoria (14:57)
Yeah.

Megan Tobler (15:07)
pre-record another day was to get through the pod fade, which is I think eight episodes these days. Like just showing up week after week, I think that’s what really brings you that success.

Victoria (15:10)
Yeah.

Well, I am following in your footsteps. You are the trailblazer here for moms in business, I think. Even if you’re on the other side of the pond, I haven’t listened to every single one from the beginning, but I have dipped in and out so interesting. And I do think it shows the parallels. There are…

Megan Tobler (15:24)
You’re too, Colin.

Victoria (15:35)
women and I suppose specifically mothers all over the world who are having the exact same conversations with each other about the challenges of juggling their business with their family life, but also tackling in their own head that tension between ambition and nurturing. How do you feel about that? How was your experience of becoming a mother? Because you have a son who’s I think nearly two, is he? Yeah, so.

Megan Tobler (16:00)
Yes. Yes.

Victoria (16:01)
How did that change the way you looked at it? Because obviously you found out that you had lost your previous job when you were pregnant and in your head, you’re gearing up, right, we’re ramping up this podcast now, this is gonna be something. and you still got time when you’re pregnant, you you can do stuff and then you’ve got a baby and suddenly, did it feel like it shifted again? How did that land for you?

Megan Tobler (16:20)
Yeah,

it’s really interesting because I was thrust into motherhood and entrepreneurship pretty much simultaneously. So I went through some pretty big identity shifts because I had always had a corporate role. I was able to, this might be more in the United States over here, but the biggest question that people ask you when they meet you is, so what do you do? And so when I had that ripped away from me,

that was really difficult to be able to talk about, especially when I hadn’t had like built a thriving business at that point, to be like, well, I don’t, I guess, like at this point. I’m pregnant, yeah. I’m a mom-ish at this point. So that was a really big transition to go through. And even today, that’s something that I’m still working through.

Victoria (16:53)
I’m pregnant.

Megan Tobler (17:05)
my elevator pitch. When someone asks me on the street, I work, I’m a stay at home mom. And then I work during the cracks of times, like nap time and after he goes to sleep. And if I’m lucky, if he wakes up late that morning before he wakes up. So any opportunity that I have, I’m working. But as far as what that looked like before, I’m a very ambitious person. And I think that was one of the things that was the most difficult going into motherhood is,

understanding that it was okay to slow down and that my dreams might happen a little bit more slowly, but I was going to have to be a lot more intentional with the time that I had. But it also showed that I’m worthy of having my own dreams. And I think that it was really important for me as I was bringing my son into this world for him to be able to see that you can make your dreams possible. I want him to see that his mom had dreams and that.

She worked day after day to be able to make those a reality for our family, but also for him as well.

So I think those are like the biggest things that I personally have experienced is understanding and recognizing that this is a season of life that we’re in right now. I mean, your kids are two and four, I think. So we’re about in the same ballpark here and it’s chaos at this age. I lost one boss and yeah.

Victoria (18:12)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

That’s an understatement. ⁓

Megan Tobler (18:23)
It’s all over the place. And I always joke that I traded my corporate boss for a two-year-old. And so he’s really dictating my schedule now. And that I have to be OK with. So when I was creating a business, I really wanted to make sure that I was creating something that fit into the life that I wanted to have rather than fitting my life into the business.

Victoria (18:29)
Hahaha

Yeah,

yeah. And that’s the dream, isn’t it? there’s definitely something around slowing down that I found really, really difficult. I’m a very fast paced person. I like to get a thousand things done in every spare minute.

Megan Tobler (18:56)
Me too.

Victoria (19:01)
I’m very, very productive and I’m very efficient. That’s kind. That’s kind. And I don’t know, I think slowing down has been a hard lesson for me and especially in business. So I had a bit of a hiatus.

Megan Tobler (19:03)
You’re efficient.

Victoria (19:17)
from my photography business during my maternity years, but that’s really because it landed right on top of the pandemic. And we were also building this house. So I had other projects But then when I came back to it, I was like, right, go. And there just is no time. And like you, I totally relate to this finding pockets of time to work and burning the midnight oil probably a little bit too much or like getting up at the crack of dawn.

Sometimes I’d just have an idea and I’d be up at like five and I’d just come downstairs and start writing it down. And my partner would be like, what, what are you doing? The baby only went to sleep at two. Why are you up at five? Writing down idea you’ve got for another business, rolling his eyes, because I just felt a bit stifled by it, I think. that’s,

Megan Tobler (19:46)
I understand.

I know.

Victoria (20:00)
and sort of settling with that, that that doesn’t mean that I don’t absolutely adore my children because I do, but there’s just a little part of you that was, that can no longer be quite like that for this period of time. And I think that can be really challenging to reconcile and it’s universal.

Megan Tobler (20:16)
Yeah,

I think so. mean, right before we got on this, so my son’s getting his molars in right now. And so he’s going through this the last couple of days, a lot of uncomfortableness and has fevers and he just, he’s a really tough kid. So I know that if he’s a little bit more fussy, then there’s something seriously wrong. And.

I love cuddling with him, but I we’re on the couch for way too long, I find myself going through my to-do list, thinking about everything that I could be getting done during this time. And it’s a constant reminder I have to work on telling myself I have to remain present. Like, he’s only going to be this little for so long, and then I won’t get this anymore. So I think, as ambitious women, it’s sometimes hard to take a second to pause and to just be present.

But it’s also like the fact that we’re able to do that is such a reward. So I have to tell myself this is a gift. I have time for this later. But it might, again, my dreams might take a little bit longer, but I can always build my dream. I can only be sitting on the couch cuddling with my son for so long. So.

Victoria (21:20)
Yeah,

yes, it’s very true. And I think, always going to be a little bit of a juggle with your own mindset, just with the ebbs and flows of your business, and also, as you say, like the seasons of your children’s childhood. I know people who have children just a couple, two, three years older, and they’re like, you’ll have so much more time. I mean, my daughter’s starting school in September, and I’m like, that feels like the end of her babyhood.

Megan Tobler (21:45)
I know.

Victoria (21:46)
And

again, the mum guilt, I’m like, did I make the most of that? I think I did, but did I really? Was I really present for all of that? Because she’s going to school and it’s all going to change again. And I think the mum guilt is hard to grapple with. And I sometimes do think, you know, would it be better if I wasn’t ambitious and I could just be completely content and just absolutely, 100 % appreciate this moment without.

tumbling through my to-do list and thinking of all the things I could have ticked off whilst I was watching Frozen for the 10,000th time.

Megan Tobler (22:19)
boy, I relate with that totally. my son’s really into Blippi right now and I just, I’m not into Don’t get your girls started. Yeah,

Victoria (22:26)
No, I’ve never heard of it, so that’s good.

have Bluey over here. I don’t know if you have Bluey, but yeah, Bluey, I’m okay with Bluey, because Bluey is like for grownups too. I’m cool with the Bluey episode came out, which was it, the sign, that last one, honestly, my partner and I went in tears at the end of it. And I think the kids had like wandered off and we were like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, they’re staying in the house.

Megan Tobler (22:31)
we do.

Yes, me too.

Yeah.

But I also want to say too, like I know you said, if you weren’t ambitious, I think that even if like women don’t have the call to maybe potentially have their own business, we are just innately wired. Definitely. I think that we have this desire to be these nurturers and to be everything for everyone sometimes. And that puts a lot of pressure on us. So if we weren’t building our businesses, we might be the mom that was making sure that the lunchbox was like perfectly curated every single day, that the house is immaculately clean.

and things that I have chosen to be just decent at because I’ve been growing my business where other people might fixate on that a little bit more. So I think that no matter what we choose to focus our attention on, I think that it’s just innately in us to think about our to-do list and everything that has to get done. That’s just, in every conversation I’ve had with women, that’s just something that’s been streamlined across the board.

Victoria (23:20)
Yeah.

That’s really good to hear and makes me feel so much better. So I appreciate that. Thank you. So tell me, there must be so many things that you have learned as you’ve built this community, because obviously you’re going into it and you’re about to become a mum. You’ve started this podcast, you have ambitions for a business, but you don’t really yet know what shape that’s going to take. And suddenly you’re learning from all these other women and mothers who have gone before you.

Megan Tobler (23:42)
Yeah. ⁓

Victoria (24:05)
and now you are building your own community online. So tell me what you have learned from all the women that you’ve interviewed and from all the women in your community.

Megan Tobler (24:16)
The biggest thing, I mean, you mentioned this earlier, is imposter syndrome. No matter where someone is on their journey, every single person is dealing with imposter syndrome on a daily basis. And I think imposter syndrome is a really good thing to have because it means that you’re doing something new. I think as humans, we are innately wired to be able to constantly learn and grow and develop. And that imposter syndrome, I think that’s just a sign of growth. You’re pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and you’re doing something new. So I’ve spoken with

women that are just starting their business and with women that are CEOs of multi seven figure businesses And so no matter what end of the spectrum they’re on, they are dealing with imposter syndrome at every single level. The between the person just starting and the person.

The seven-figure business is that they might have just been doing it longer and they’ve been more consistent They showed up despite the imposter syndrome every single day So sometimes it’s hard to compare your day one journey to someone’s year five journey because there’s so much growth that happens in between the margins there And then the other thing I would say is showing up messy, especially as women We think that we have to show up perfect that we have to have everything figured out before we can even hit publish

and that’s absolutely not the case. business is going to change. I can tell you how many times I’ve changed right now. Like I’m still going through an evolution. Your business is going to change because you are going to change as an individual.

just put it out there because it’s also more authentic and people relate with it.

Like no one really wants to see the polished put together person because that’s really not, it’s not real life. No.

Victoria (25:54)
feel good to see that person,

especially if you’re in and your hair’s in a knot and you haven’t washed it in three days and you’re just madly trying to throw a social media post out and you feel like you’re completely in the weeds. That’s just going to make you feel deflated, I think.

Megan Tobler (26:04)
Yeah.

Yes.

Victoria (26:11)
I’ve had to grapple with this too. And for a long time putting out content for my photography business, obviously as a photographer, I can take really beautiful photographs, at least I hope I can. So it was really easy to have a really nice curated feed and it all looked, lovely, all similar tones and the colors and whatever. And to actually just throw that all away and start this new account and think, okay, I’m just gonna be me.

and we see how it goes. that’s a leap. And do you think it’s something that women struggle with more than men?

Megan Tobler (26:40)
I do think that this is something that women grapple with more than men. And it’s not even just in entrepreneurship. Think about

in the working world and corporate. As you’re climbing the corporate ladder, there are more men at the top and like there’s a lot of different reasons for that. But it’s also because there’s, isn’t there this statistic that a man will apply to a role he hits like, let’s say 30 % of the criteria that they’re asking for. But a woman will only apply to it if she hits all 100 % of the points that they’re asking for. And that’s like, I think a really good example of how our brains work. We think that we have to check all the boxes.

instead of the men are like, okay, well, I check X, Y, Z, like, let’s put it out there and see what happens. It’s a level of confidence that they’re exuding and that’s what they’re getting hired for. Because women, we are scrappy, we figure it out. think about going into motherhood. We don’t know what the heck we’re doing as we’re entering into motherhood, but every single one of us figures it we are more than qualified to be able to raise these humans and to start these businesses, but we’re the ones that are holding ourselves back.

there’s a lot of pressure on women just in general these days too. So I think that’s a whole nother conversation, but we’re afraid of not being perfect.

Victoria (27:48)
Yeah, instinctively, think so much of that is conditioning. You know, when you’re a child, I don’t know about you, I playfully described as bossy. Whereas in my circle, had they demonstrated the same behaviour, would have been described as And I think it’s just one small example.

Megan Tobler (27:53)
Yes.

Victoria (28:11)
but you definitely internalise all of those things as you’re growing up. And I feel like women’s behaviour is far more prescriptive through society historically. a recipe for it. You if you need to be a good girl, you need to do this, this, this, this, this. And that has repercussions as we get older and how we play in our careers and in the world of work.

But you’re so right, you know, the whole act of motherhood, We do, we absolutely just figure it

I mean, I was having a conversation with somebody here in the UK not long ago, and we were talking about how poor postpartum care is now for women in this country in comparison to even how it was 30 years ago. My mother was shocked at how I was just kind of abandoned.

especially during the pandemic and like, you here’s your baby, have fun. quite shocking, but we do, we figure it out. And do you think that there are I’m gonna say skills because it’s something that you have to absolutely learn on the job that mothers have, which stand them in better stead for building businesses.

Megan Tobler (29:09)
Absolutely. It was interesting because I’ve interviewed a few women that used to be at home moms that then started their own businesses. And if you think about the role of a mom, you’re the house manager. So you are the cook, you are the cleaner, you are the chauffeur. If you like, you’re coordinating all the schedules. So if you think about all the roles that you have as a mom, you have so many qualifications from being a mom that can actually transfer into a business that you might not even realize.

Victoria (29:27)
you

Megan Tobler (29:38)
So many of these moms are overly qualified and have all the skill sets needed to be able to really monetize these qualifications. I think, again, it goes back to why aren’t they starting? And it’s because either they don’t want to, which is fine, or perfectionism and imposter syndrome. why me? there yet.

And I think those are why people don’t start. But yes, I think moms in general have all this different skills that it takes because they’re organized, they’re efficient, they’re able to multitask and be everywhere at once for everyone, which offense to the men out there, but like I haven’t seen a man that can do.

Victoria (30:19)
Yeah

Yes, I concur. I live here and I haven’t either. So we’ll just say across the Western world, we haven’t seen this yet, but we hope, we hope that it will come as things shift in society. So everything that you’re doing and building your community, what change do you hope to see? What’s the impact that you want to make in this world?

Megan Tobler (30:22)
Yeah.

That’s a really great question. And I think that there’s so many different directions that I can take this. But the first one is that I really want moms that are building businesses to not feel alone. I mentioned that I was thrust into entrepreneurship as well as motherhood at once. And both of them were a very lonely experience because I was completely alone and isolated in both areas my life. You mentioned just the postpartum experience.

It isn’t what it should be, we’ll just put it that way. And I don’t know exactly what it’s like in the UK, but I can speak to what it’s like here in the States. It’s non-existent. And then also people don’t really understand what you’re going through unless they’ve gone through it too. So especially in your friend group, it’s a little isolating and you feel alone. So as you’re building these businesses and you’re entering into motherhood, it does feel like a lonely journey sometimes. And I just really wanted to create a space.

where these women could be able to confidently show up and get the support that they needed to thrive in both areas of their life. And then also I really wanted to make sure that they were able to get the resources that they needed. So it was more than just connection, it was also an opportunity for growth in the pockets of time that they have because today we have unlimited access to information. It’s literally at our fingertips. But sometimes if you go to a master class or

you purchase a course, it’s not designed for the mom who’s literally trying to fit things into the pockets of time. For me, I am very much like, when I’m learning, I want straight to the I don’t have the fluff in this season of life. So like, let’s skip the 15 minute introductions and let’s get to the meat and potatoes here. So that’s really, really what I wanted to create for these moms is…

Victoria (32:11)
You

Megan Tobler (32:16)
like immediate information that they can access from anywhere on the go in the pockets of time that they have. So that way they can really experience the transformation that they need in their business to be able to get them to the next level. So bringing all of these women the resources they need. So whether that’s email marketing, whether that’s SEO, whether that’s like brand photography, like for bringing the photography element that you’re doing. Maybe it’s even just mindset work, giving them all the tools and the resources so that they can create the transformation for themselves in the pockets of time that they have.

So again, to answer your question, long story short, it’s being able to provide a sense of connection in a season that’s really lonely sometimes, and then also give them the growth opportunities that they so desire in the pockets of time that they have.

Victoria (32:59)
didn’t realize actually until I became a mum how important female relationships are. I absolutely underestimated them. I went to an all girls school and I had friends, obviously, and It just didn’t register on the scale of absolute necessity in the way that it does when you’re a mum.

and crave conversation with other moms for that solidarity. And I think there are lots of things. mean, over here we have NCT, which I did, and I was very lucky. I made loads of amazing friends who were having babies the same time as me. But, there was nothing specifically to support women who found themselves like you did.

in a position where it was necessary to take ownership of their career and do something different. And it’s becoming quite commonplace that actually women are almost forced into entrepreneurship by circumstance because their previous career doesn’t give them the flexibility that they need in order to be the mother that they always hoped they would be. And a lot of us grew up with moms who were really, really present because it was a different social environment.

My mum, she did bits of work here and there, but essentially she took care of us. That was her primary goal in life. And so she was always there, always present, reliable, consistent And I want to be that mum, but society has changed. And in order for us to have a home, we have to have two incomes now. my job, if I had a corporate job or whatever it might be,

Megan Tobler (34:20)
No.

Victoria (34:25)
might be nine till five. And so I would be dropping my children off for breakfast and picking them up and putting them to bed. And that’s not the experience that I had.

And I would be a stranger to them.

Megan Tobler (34:33)
I agree.

Victoria (34:36)
And specifically for mothers who found themselves in that position. And that is actually becoming increasingly common. So I think you’ve nailed it there. It’s that you absolutely need solidarity with other mums. there is some provision for that over here.

but not other mums who are having a career crisis and are having to break out and do this thing. And for the most part, I don’t know about you. I just, feel like I’ve come across a lot of women who just had to make it up as they went along.

Megan Tobler (35:03)
pretty sure most everyone that I have interviewed where they’ve either found themselves post layoff after they’ve been made redundant or

they’ve entered into motherhood and realized I can’t go back, they figured it out as they went along. Like nothing has been polished and put together. But I also want to add to what you’re talking about as far as the multiple incomes here. Child care has become so expensive where I live that it’s sometimes your entire salary to be able to put a child in So it…

Does it make sense to be able to potentially make a little bit less money as a family unit and be there to raise your children? Or, like you said, do you go to have the dual incomes and then you’re there to just wake your kids up and put them to sleep at night? And only each family can decide what’s best for them.

I guess where I’m here to tell everyone today is like you can have it all. Having it all just might look different than what you originally had thought of. Like I never thought that I was going to be a stay at home mom. I was super ambitious. never thought that I would not be generating an income with a 401k and having like nice, like benefits to go along with everything. I, I don’t know. guess I always thought that I would have the, the nice career from like a corporate standpoint and be a mom. But what I

Victoria (36:11)
You

Megan Tobler (36:20)
realized now is that I do it all in air quotes here it just doesn’t look like what I thought of before. I’m home with my son as I’m able to still be chasing my dreams and being able to help other people in the process. someone said this the other day that I thought was really interesting there’s really no excuse if someone wants to make money online from home today it’s a hundred percent possible because of all the information and accessibility to reach

that we had that our moms and our grandmas and our great grandmas didn’t have access to what we have access to today. So I think that we have the power to be able to reshape our destinies. Like what do we want our lives to look like? We have that power. And I think that was like a very eye-opening conversation to me to be able to realize that yes, like.

We truly can have it all. It’s just, again, it might be different than what all looked like originally.

Victoria (37:12)
Yeah, it comes back to the definition, doesn’t it? And I think that phrase, having it all, is so loaded because, having it all in the traditional sense in which it was meant without redefining what success is to that individual is quite a dangerous thing because what…

Megan Tobler (37:19)
Yes.

Victoria (37:29)
and this is something that came up on a recent podcast episode of yours, having it all can be interpreted as doing it all. And I think in my very short career as a mother, I’ve definitely fallen into that trap where at times I have been drowning trying to do it all, believing that I can. And yeah, you can, but you won’t live very long. You know, your body eventually will be so furious with you.

Megan Tobler (37:42)
Yes. Yes.

Victoria (37:54)
that things will start to go wrong and your health will suffer. And how do you feel about that? You had that conversation, what did you take away?

Megan Tobler (38:02)
Well, first all, want to say that I agree with you that having it all needs to be defined by each individual because having it all to one person could be completely different than what it means to another individual. to answer your question here, what is having it all versus doing it all mean? I personally wanted like doing it all. I’m still trying not to do it all. I will be honest with you there that that’s something that I have a really hard time. You were talking about this at the beginning of the episode here where

Victoria (38:22)
Same.

Megan Tobler (38:29)
you’re talking about how you really are efficient and trying to figure out how to make the most of your time. But for me, I’m the same exact way and I am not the best at asking for help. But that’s something that I’ve really had to learn in this stage is that

I can’t have it all if I’m doing it all. can I outsource in my life and where can I ask for help? So I was talking about in this episode that one of the things that my husband and I did decide to do is that we hired a housekeeper once a month. That’s what we’re starting with. And because I didn’t have enough time to be able to do a deep clean of the house, make sure that my son had all of his needs met and build a business. So I prioritized my business. So our house was honestly getting

Thank

a little out of control, to be honest with you, and it was, it was not good. So that was the first thing that we decided. It’s like in order to truly like have everything that we want, we need to outsource this thing first. Another thing that I decided to outsource was my podcast editing. I knew that I wasn’t going to have it all with the podcast and make sure that it was really the success that I knew it could be if I was responsible for editing that myself. So that’s the only thing in my business right now that I am outsourcing. And it has allowed me to stay consistent.

And like I said earlier, consistency is truly what is going to get you from A to Z. It’s not the talent, resilience, it’s the tenacity, it’s just showing up day in and day out. And I will say that it works. I was stuck at 10 % podcast for…

I can’t even tell you how long, but I recently shifted to top 5%. So it’s like, it shows you like, I’m not the best podcast out there. I’m not the most talented person. My marketing could definitely use some work, but I’ve shown up and shown up and shown up and gets there and just sometimes takes a little bit longer, but it does happen if you stay consistent. And I think that’s where a lot of people don’t see the success because they don’t stay consistent and they give up right before their big breakthrough.

Victoria (40:24)
That’s really exciting. And how many episodes are you on now?

Megan Tobler (40:27)
We’re, gosh, I actually don’t even know off the top of my head. think I was like 160 something.

we’re in the

Victoria (40:32)
Okay, which is a

that’s an amazing achievement. I’m very impressed.

And this is Yeah, well, maybe. I’m really loving it, so I hope so, because I think it’s really cool, and I do like talking. It’s listening that I’m trying to train myself on. It’s the listening bit. But I’m getting better. But I think it’s having that faith as well. this is the thing about being an entrepreneur, you’re betting on yourself.

Megan Tobler (40:37)
You’re gonna be there.

Victoria (40:53)
You you can outsource your to a certain extent to company, wage, your wellbeing, traditionally that’s how the world was built. You you go and you get your job for life and there is still a lot to be said for that. And for a lot of people, that is exactly what they want to do.

But, and I think maybe I have a particular experience because I grew up in an entrepreneurial household. That was always what I knew. But it’s this idea of betting on yourself. And so with your podcast, you’re like, I do this and I am going to keep doing it and I’m going to get better at it. And I’ll meet some amazing people. And I think it’s enjoying the journey and having that.

faith and belief, which you obviously have, and I’m quite inspired by that. You know, it does work.

Megan Tobler (41:37)
I

will say that some days are easier than others. ⁓ I can definitely go down the rabbit hole myself, but truly, the podcast has allowed me to be able to stay consistent because I’m inspired by all of these women. Like these conversations, what we’re doing right now is the fuel that I need in order to continue because I truly believe without this community, because I do call this like a community that we’re building here, conversation after conversation.

it has literally changed my life. And these women that I’ve met from these interviews have become my online virtual friends. I’ve never met them in person, but I feel like I know them more intimately than some of my good friends that I live next to. So I truly believe that just showing up, having these conversations and showing up authentically too, and like sharing the ups and the downs of their journey, that’s really where…

you’re going to be able to find the real progress and the real change. It’s are going through it with you and when you’re up and they’re down, you’re there to pull them up and vice versa. So it’s truly this beautiful, chaotic roller coaster that we’re it’s 100 % worth me and the community. When I see a to me is everything.

I’m not making nearly the amount of money that I was making in corporate and I proudly, not, I mean, clearly I would like to make more money, but like I am happy to share that information feel more fulfilled doing what I’m doing today than I did when I was making multiple six figures in my corporate salary. So I think that it’s like coming home to who you are and what you value, having that bigger mission and like showing day in and day out, just knowing that you’re really doing good in the world.

Victoria (43:00)
you

And we’re again back to definition of success and it’s so much more than your paycheck. the impact, the fulfillment, the sense of purpose. just leads to such a healthier state of mind than all the things you can buy on Amazon and how big your house is, in my view. And I think becoming a mother really, really hammers that home because you can find such joy in just a cute little thing that your child does in the moment.

Megan Tobler (43:35)
100%. Yes.

Victoria (43:45)
And of course they might be screaming at you in the middle of a tantrum two minutes later, but it’s about finding those pockets of joy and they’re so meaningful. And it does, it gives you a lot of clarity, I think. Coming back to, know, mum’s being run businesses. You are efficient, you are getting a lot done in your day, but you also have a great sense of what’s important and what isn’t.

that perhaps you didn’t have before. It’s a sort of wisdom that comes with becoming a mum. And I think that’s invaluable to bring to a business because at the end of the day, it’s all about people, it’s about connections, it’s about building relationships. It’s not just about, you know, the spreadsheets and the profit margins.

Megan Tobler (44:21)
Yeah, I had another

interview where someone said every single time you say yes to something, you’re actually saying no to something else. And that really fits in nicely to what we were saying right here because have to prioritize what matters most to us and also put boundaries in place. And I think that’s something that I’ve learned is to be able to prioritize what matters most and that’s my son. And everything after that is secondary.

Victoria (44:44)
I had a question, I don’t know whether to ask it because I just think it’s gonna rain on our parade a little bit. But just for the sake of balance, tell me about your biggest challenge in building your business so far?

Megan Tobler (44:55)
I mean, this is something that I was actually going back and forth with with the woman today. Sometimes I second guess myself. I feel like I know in my heart of hearts that I’m capable of doing some pretty incredible things. I know that I have like everything that it takes to be able to do that, but I’m my biggest hurdle. I put the biggest blocks on myself to be able to overthink it. I sometimes can compare myself, think that.

why me exactly the imposter syndrome that we were talking about earlier. then also like I come from a sales background. So is gonna sound really cocky, but I was a very good salesperson. Let’s just put it that way. But sometimes selling my own things, it’s become a little bit of a struggle. And so that’s something that I’m really having to work on right now is one, like what true value can I bring from like an expert

into this world because I didn’t want to be the sales girl, but I also know that I’m really good at it and I know I could help a lot of people. With this community, I have chosen to be a curator where I’m bringing all the experts to the other individuals, but in turn, I talked about this before, I wasn’t being seen as the expert. I’m not being seen as the expert in this part, but I’m kind of keeping a lot of my strengths invisible. So.

Yes, I have imposter syndrome. Going back to the very beginning of this episode, that’s something that I’m struggling with now is, okay, have the foundations set in stone. Like this is a wonderful, beautiful foundation, but I’m the one blocking myself from getting to the next level because of my own personal struggles of feeling like inadequate or potentially even really putting myself out there, potentially even fear of failure. I mean, I’m talking about this out loud, but that could even be…

Victoria (46:07)
You

Megan Tobler (46:33)
a thing that I’m doing. What if I fall flat on my face when I truly put my own self out there? So those are just some things that I’ve been grappling with that truly have prevented me from getting to that next level. But I will get there.

Victoria (46:44)
you absolutely will get there. And I had this conversation an earlier episode we were talking about how easy it is to go out and market and sell a service that’s not personal to you?

And it’s similar for you. Isn’t it awful when you think about it that you could sell snow to Eskimos

for this corporate company that was employing you, but you struggle to say, hey, come over here, I’ve got a really nice community that you should join, it’s really good, and there’s some experts in there and that. Like, as I do it too. And it’s so ridiculous, and it is completely a mindset thing, and that’s how I know you’ll get in my photography business, I have exactly the same.

Megan Tobler (47:17)
Yeah, yes.

Victoria (47:26)
issue and I’ve been doing it for 15 when I run a charity could go and talk to people about that for days and it’s just we need to get out of our own way and I completely relate and I’m sure there are so many other women who get it too and I don’t know what we need to do we need some sort of medicine to take make us shout about ourselves because

We are going to lose out if we don’t do that. Nobody’s going to market us but ourselves. And you obviously have gained so much from all these amazing women that you’ve interviewed. And I no doubt you have enormous value and you are so articulate and so eloquent in your delivery of every message. I think will absolutely get there, but it will be organic because we are women and it will take as long as it takes. But yeah, I’ve no doubt about it.

Megan Tobler (48:13)
So I recently stumbled upon this chat GPT like.

I guess like it’s like a online business coach where someone programmed it to be able to use astrological information as well as your human design information. was very fascinating. So I purchased it without even, mean, you were talking about before we hit record being an impulse purchaser sometimes and that’s me. So it a low lift and I’ve been playing around with it it’s really interesting because it takes your astrological information and your human design information and kind of.

Victoria (48:33)
Yeah.

Megan Tobler (48:43)
it acts as a business coach for you and tells you everything that you kind of should be doing in your business based on that information. And then you can actually go back and forth with it to be able to do this. And what you said right now was something that it told me. It’s like, you are going to grow based on just showing up authentically. People are gonna connect with you as you, I mean, I’m sure they tell this to lots of people too. But that was something that was an eye-opening thing because sometimes I was talking about before women feel like they need to be polished.

I’ve chosen to just be myself through everything and it’s been a slow growth, but I feel like by being authentic and showing up as myself, the people that I have attracted are very like-minded and similar and we just bond right away. And so I think that this is a reminder to myself and to other people that if you just show up as yourself, you don’t have to be all polished, that you’re going to attract the like-minded people in those relationships are going to be so much greater and it’s going to get you to that next level.

It might take a while, but like just stay with it. The consistency, I’m going back to that as well. Like be consistent, cause it’s, it’s worth it. I’m still figuring it out. but it’s, it’s all been worth it.

Victoria (49:39)
You

And it’s attracting repel as well. You have to accept that if you put yourself out as yourself, not everyone is gonna like you, just like they didn’t in the school playground okay. You are going to attract the people who, like you just said, you immediately connect with. You are just on the same wavelength. And that’s so much more valuable. And I think the danger in today’s online world is that…

Megan Tobler (49:51)
Yes.

Victoria (50:11)
it can feel like a numbers game. Especially when you’re posting on Instagram and you’re like, well, I’ve only got, I mean, I think this podcast has like 50 followers right now. But you know, I started it like a month ago, so it’s fine. you… Yeah, yeah, 50 people like me, yay. I’m not bothered. Like, I think I have to have a word with myself. You can’t, I mean, when you’re feeling just, you know, you’re due on your period and you’re just feeling a bit sad and you’re just like…

Megan Tobler (50:23)
Hey, you have 50 followers. That’s something to celebrate.

Yes.

Yes.

Victoria (50:38)
and

no one likes me and only one person like this. And you can do that to yourself, but actually that one person that liked it, really liked it. And they are interested in hearing what you have to say. And that’s all the validation and the social proof that you need to keep going. I feel like we’re very aligned in our faith because I can see.

Megan Tobler (50:55)
I think so.

Victoria (50:57)
that these conversations are really meaningful. And it is so nice to have some real connection and some deep conversation with people in a world of throw away social media posts it’s totally exhausting. Whereas this feels really good and wholesome and meaningful. And I think.

Yeah, if I get to as many episodes as you, I’ll be winning. I’ll be very pleased myself. And you’ll be up at like 300 and something by then.

Megan Tobler (51:22)
Well, should be, ⁓ girl, you’re already winning and you should also be so proud of yourself

because I know how much work it takes to get to this point and you’re just bringing so much value already to your audience. So if you’re enjoying it, I say stick with it because you’re going to see all the results that you’re hoping for and more that you don’t even see coming.

Victoria (51:30)
Mm.

Love it. You’ve got me feeling excited again. It’s very late here. It’s like 10 to 10 at night, but I’m I’m like, ready to go. Like, let’s start a new day. So my last question that I’ve been asking I actually, really love is all this experience that you’ve had your corporate career, going it alone and taking the entrepreneurial route and becoming a mother. What would you now say looking back to your eight year old self?

Megan Tobler (52:08)
would say don’t be afraid to put yourself out there and stop caring about what other people think. I was always told like, ⁓ follow the good girl. I was always like the mother hen, making sure that I was always following the rules so everyone put me in charge of their kids, even at a young age. And that put a lot of stress and responsibility on my shoulders relatively young and pressure. And sometimes I think I would tell her don’t be afraid.

to make some waves and do things your way instead of always playing by the rules. Because sometimes you’re meant to color outside the lines. you know?

Victoria (52:44)
I love that. That’s a really nice analogy as well. And it’s lovely that actually your son’s about to start colouring in. And had you had him much, much younger in life, you’d have been saying, no, no, no, let’s go in the lines. Whereas now you can say, look, just go with it. What do you want to do with it?

Megan Tobler (52:50)
Yes.

Yep. Well, and you were talking

about this earlier about how we kind of program girls in particular to be like polished in a certain way. I obviously have a son, so it’s a little bit different. can’t speak to what it would be like to have a daughter, but I hope that this is how I would be with a daughter. But with my son, I want him to make a mess. I want him to fall. I want him to just make these, I don’t want to say mistakes for himself, but like,

fall on your face and like, let’s get back up. Like, let’s do this and show them that like life still goes on and you’ve got this. So that’s the kind of the mom that I am at this point. Like I’m very much like in between a type B and a type A mom where it’s like, okay, like do your thing. get in the mud, get messy. Like let’s have some fun. like you said, like color outside the lines.

Victoria (53:41)
love it. I love it. I’m sure he loves it too. My mum says I can make all the mess. It’s fine. All right, okay. You’ve got a system. It’s all good. So tell me, where can everybody find you if they want to come and check you out online or connect with you? Tell me all the places.

Megan Tobler (53:46)
My husband not so much, but he’s gone most of the time, so I just clean it up before he gets home.

somewhat.

All the places, so selfstarter.com and Self Starter has an H in it for like her. I’m sure you’ll put that in the show notes. You’ll find me on Instagram at selfstart.her and then the podcast, just check out the Self Starter podcast available on all your podcasting platforms.

Victoria (54:20)
Definitely, I highly recommend it. And shows these conversations are happening across the Western world. Mums in business are the same challenges becoming the same obstacles. And I absolutely love that. That’s one of the things that I’ve definitely taken away from your podcast. So yeah, thank you so much for taking the time of your day to talk to me. I really appreciate it. And I’ve absolutely loved our conversation.

And I’m excited to see where you take this because I feel like although you’re ahead of me, I’ll probably just copy you. Whatever you do, I’ll be like, that worked for Megan.

Megan Tobler (54:53)
or I’m going to be copying you. So, or we do this,

you know what? Like my community is called Together, so no pun intended here. Let’s just do this together. Yes.

Victoria (55:00)
We’ll do it together, that sounds great. What a nice note

to end on. You’re welcome, take care.

Megan Tobler (55:03)
Thanks for having me.

Victoria (55:10)
This conversation goes to show that mothers everywhere are navigating a tough generational shift, where the expectations of what it means to be a mum have changed dramatically since the role was modelled to us by our own mothers. Whether you’re a working one, a stay at home one, a freelance one or a CEO one, there is a synergy that binds mums everywhere. Overwhelmed, self-doubt and imposter syndrome to name just a few of the challenges we are all experiencing in today’s world. We feel a pressure to emulate a modern way of doing things to our children.

when really we’re just trying to figure it all out for ourselves. Ambition versus nurture, hustle versus rest, perfectionism versus grace, and to-do lists versus snuggling on the sofa with our kids. It’s a lot to grapple with, but Megan is absolutely right. We are not alone. If she and I can find so much common ground in a conversation that spans over 5,000 miles, then it’s safe to say these subjects are being tackled in WhatsApp chats, Snatch lunch hour catch-ups,

and precious dinner dates between mums around the world. I said this in the podcast trailer, mums need mom friends and entrepreneurs need entrepreneur friends. And I have to say, I have been amazed by the interest in this podcast, which is only in its third week. Mums I’ve never met before have contacted me to share their story or tell me how much they’ve enjoyed the episode so far, which tells me that there is a need for podcasts like this. So thank you to Megan for paving the way.

and reminding us all of the importance of community. Together, we can recalibrate what it means to be a mum in the modern world, designing our own individual definitions of success and supporting each other as we seek to achieve whatever that word means to us.

Victoria (56:48)
Thank you so much for being here. I know your time is precious and I appreciate every single one of you for tuning in today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, rate and review the podcast because we want as many moms as possible to find us and join in the conversation.

If you have thoughts, questions, love letters, or even hate mail, please send them my way. I read every single message. For more resources and episode show notes, please visit our website at mummeansbusinesspodcast.com and find us on Instagram at mummeansbusinesspodcast for behind the scenes content and updates. Until next time, I’m wishing you only good things in life and business, and I will speak to you soon.